Pippen Says LeBron is "Best Player Ever"

[hannsum]

Originally Posted by DubA169

to be fair kobe was playing in a deeeeep western conference. Bron was playing against more terrible teams

see stats of kobe against eastern teams back then. 

 

[hannsum]

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Well. I look at it like this. Lebron basically outperformed Kobe because he was a 1 man team for the majority of his career. The cavs teams were built around him, so of course he would get his assists, rebounds, points, etc. Kobe had another star for the majority of his career. When he didn't have a star (around 04-07), he was DESTROYING the league. 81, 62 in 3 q, like 5 straight 50 point games, couple 60 point games. That all went away when Gasol came to the Lakers.

Yeah, LeBron has 50 point games too. You know what the difference is though? When LeBron does it it's because he's shooting well and scoring efficiently. When Kobe does it, it's because he's shooting too much, and his team usually ends up losing the game. 
Kobe even holds the record for the worst performance for a player that scored 40+ points in one game with 17-47. Lol. This guy takes 47 shots and misses 30 of them. Sure, he got points, but there not a single scorer in the NBA that can't score volume points when taking such an absurd amount of shots. Of all of the 50+ point games with less than 50% shooting in NBA history, Kobe is responsible for almost half of them. Seriously. Not an exaggeration. 6 of 13.

Statistically, when LeBron and Kobe take 30+ shots in a game, LeBron's team wins the majority of the time. Kobe's team loses twice as much as they win. There's a difference between scoring alot and scoring alot efficiently.

LeBron is already #3 of all time in points per game. Kobe's not even a top 10. LeBron scores more points than Kobe, and he does it taking less shots. LeBron shot 51.1% this year. LeBron has had 2 seasons over 50%. Kobe has NEVER had one. The best season he's ever had is 47%. They both came in the league out of high school. LeBron first couple years, he was a dominating superstar player. Kobe was a benchwarmer who was a pretty bad player chucking up airballs at record numbers. lol.

Like you said, Kobe has been with other super stars and LeBron was a one man team. Why does LeBron beat him in assists? Why does Kobe miss more shots while scoring less?

LeBron wins in PPG, assists, FG%, rebounding, blocks, steals, PER, win shares (off and def), better defender.....  this is not a close comparison at all. Kobe doesn't compare to Dwyane Wade, let alone LeBron.

If you have any reason at all why prime Kobe is supposedly better than prime Bron, let's hear it. And don't come with that 5 rings BS. You already stated that Kobe has been on stacked teams while Bron was a "1 man team" in Cleveland. Plus I really don't feel like typing up all the facts and stats showing how Kobe has NEVER been the main reason his team won a championship. He has ALWAYS been outperformed by his team mates in the playoffs/finals. He even has the WORST performance in NBA history for a finals MVP (6-24).

Kobe is one of my all time favorite players and the Lakers is my all time favorite team, but the Kobe stans constantly force me to show the truth when they try to rewrite history and spread incorrect BS hype and myths about Kobe. It's starting to happen with D.Rose now too.

That's like basically saying Oscar Roberton is better than Jordan because of his stats.
Lebron beats Kobe in assists because that's his game. He is a pg in a small forwards body. AND all of his teams were BUILT around him (shooters, big men who can screen and roll, etc). Lebron has a higher fg percentage because most of his points were from the paint, while Kobe's were 3's and 18-feet jumpers. Lebron is 3rd all time ppg because he's been that good since his rookie year. Kobe was never at that level until his 3rd or 4th year in the league when he started to average arounf 25 ppg.

Kobe has missed more shots while scoring less because of his horrible supporting cast back then. Smush Parker? Kwame Brown? Sasha? Luke Walton? The only other scoring threat was Lamar Odom. Of course Kobe had to take all of those shots.

As for him being ALWAYS outperformed in the playoffs.. WHAT? What have you been watching? Did you see Kobe vs. the suns last year where he single handedly finished the suns in game 6? Or when shaq fouled out in the finals against the pacers and Kobe put the team on his back? Don't even say something dumb like that.

And Kobe not on Wade's level? Seriously?

Prime Kobe > Wade at ANY point of his career

this is the biggest misconception of basketball. 
oscar didn't have better stats than mj.

triple double is nice but overall, mj had better stats.

 

[hannsum]

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Well. I look at it like this. Lebron basically outperformed Kobe because he was a 1 man team for the majority of his career. The cavs teams were built around him, so of course he would get his assists, rebounds, points, etc. Kobe had another star for the majority of his career. When he didn't have a star (around 04-07), he was DESTROYING the league. 81, 62 in 3 q, like 5 straight 50 point games, couple 60 point games. That all went away when Gasol came to the Lakers.

Yeah, LeBron has 50 point games too. You know what the difference is though? When LeBron does it it's because he's shooting well and scoring efficiently. When Kobe does it, it's because he's shooting too much, and his team usually ends up losing the game. 
Kobe even holds the record for the worst performance for a player that scored 40+ points in one game with 17-47. Lol. This guy takes 47 shots and misses 30 of them. Sure, he got points, but there not a single scorer in the NBA that can't score volume points when taking such an absurd amount of shots. Of all of the 50+ point games with less than 50% shooting in NBA history, Kobe is responsible for almost half of them. Seriously. Not an exaggeration. 6 of 13.

Statistically, when LeBron and Kobe take 30+ shots in a game, LeBron's team wins the majority of the time. Kobe's team loses twice as much as they win. There's a difference between scoring alot and scoring alot efficiently.

LeBron is already #3 of all time in points per game. Kobe's not even a top 10. LeBron scores more points than Kobe, and he does it taking less shots. LeBron shot 51.1% this year. LeBron has had 2 seasons over 50%. Kobe has NEVER had one. The best season he's ever had is 47%. They both came in the league out of high school. LeBron first couple years, he was a dominating superstar player. Kobe was a benchwarmer who was a pretty bad player chucking up airballs at record numbers. lol.

Like you said, Kobe has been with other super stars and LeBron was a one man team. Why does LeBron beat him in assists? Why does Kobe miss more shots while scoring less?

LeBron wins in PPG, assists, FG%, rebounding, blocks, steals, PER, win shares (off and def), better defender.....  this is not a close comparison at all. Kobe doesn't compare to Dwyane Wade, let alone LeBron.

If you have any reason at all why prime Kobe is supposedly better than prime Bron, let's hear it. And don't come with that 5 rings BS. You already stated that Kobe has been on stacked teams while Bron was a "1 man team" in Cleveland. Plus I really don't feel like typing up all the facts and stats showing how Kobe has NEVER been the main reason his team won a championship. He has ALWAYS been outperformed by his team mates in the playoffs/finals. He even has the WORST performance in NBA history for a finals MVP (6-24).

Kobe is one of my all time favorite players and the Lakers is my all time favorite team, but the Kobe stans constantly force me to show the truth when they try to rewrite history and spread incorrect BS hype and myths about Kobe. It's starting to happen with D.Rose now too.

That's like basically saying Oscar Roberton is better than Jordan because of his stats.
Lebron beats Kobe in assists because that's his game. He is a pg in a small forwards body. AND all of his teams were BUILT around him (shooters, big men who can screen and roll, etc). Lebron has a higher fg percentage because most of his points were from the paint, while Kobe's were 3's and 18-feet jumpers. Lebron is 3rd all time ppg because he's been that good since his rookie year. Kobe was never at that level until his 3rd or 4th year in the league when he started to average arounf 25 ppg.

Kobe has missed more shots while scoring less because of his horrible supporting cast back then. Smush Parker? Kwame Brown? Sasha? Luke Walton? The only other scoring threat was Lamar Odom. Of course Kobe had to take all of those shots.

As for him being ALWAYS outperformed in the playoffs.. WHAT? What have you been watching? Did you see Kobe vs. the suns last year where he single handedly finished the suns in game 6? Or when shaq fouled out in the finals against the pacers and Kobe put the team on his back? Don't even say something dumb like that.

And Kobe not on Wade's level? Seriously?

Prime Kobe > Wade at ANY point of his career

this is the biggest misconception of basketball. 
oscar didn't have better stats than mj.

triple double is nice but overall, mj had better stats.

 

[JAYxSF415]

 

[JAYxSF415]

 

[tennhouse2]

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

Originally Posted by TennHouse2

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

did kobe win at least 50 games a season?
if he didn't, then it only means that he was just jacking up shots.

bron can jack up 40 shots and score 80 or 90 pts if he wanted to..but the team record won't be near 60 wins.

you gotta look at it like this. stop looking at 50pts 60pts games. 

just making you look like a damnn fool 

or that he was playing with one of the worst supporting casts in the history of the NBA and yes way worse then the Cavs' when lebron was there

didn't kobe still have lamar odom? who's better than mo williams?
not to mention phil jackson?

bring any year of kobe, i can EASILY back up with bron's 

lol every single player on that cavs roster was better then everyone on the lakers roster besides Kobe and Lamar and we both know that, dont even try to go there with that argument...

 

[tennhouse2]

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

Originally Posted by TennHouse2

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

did kobe win at least 50 games a season?
if he didn't, then it only means that he was just jacking up shots.

bron can jack up 40 shots and score 80 or 90 pts if he wanted to..but the team record won't be near 60 wins.

you gotta look at it like this. stop looking at 50pts 60pts games. 

just making you look like a damnn fool 

or that he was playing with one of the worst supporting casts in the history of the NBA and yes way worse then the Cavs' when lebron was there

didn't kobe still have lamar odom? who's better than mo williams?
not to mention phil jackson?

bring any year of kobe, i can EASILY back up with bron's 

lol every single player on that cavs roster was better then everyone on the lakers roster besides Kobe and Lamar and we both know that, dont even try to go there with that argument...

 

[cornzilla]

I'm sorry Hannsum but you're gonna have to clarify what you mean by mj had better stats overall?

 

[cornzilla]

I'm sorry Hannsum but you're gonna have to clarify what you mean by mj had better stats overall?

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by cornzilla


^^^ Onion must have seen that video about the comparison of MJ and Kobe

Lebron's team actually faired better against western conference teams in the past 4 years he was with the Cavs.
08-09 Eastern 40-12 .769 win pct

  Western 26-4 .866 win pct

09-10 Eastern 38-14 .730 win pct

  Western 23-7 .733 win pct

Also the year he went to the NBA finals 

06-07 Eastern 31-21 .596 win pct

  Western 19-11 .633 win pct

So he has always performed better against the western conference team than eastern conference teams. If he was playing in the west his team could be performing better than he is now??

interesting. those numbers surprised me.

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by cornzilla


^^^ Onion must have seen that video about the comparison of MJ and Kobe

Lebron's team actually faired better against western conference teams in the past 4 years he was with the Cavs.
08-09 Eastern 40-12 .769 win pct

  Western 26-4 .866 win pct

09-10 Eastern 38-14 .730 win pct

  Western 23-7 .733 win pct

Also the year he went to the NBA finals 

06-07 Eastern 31-21 .596 win pct

  Western 19-11 .633 win pct

So he has always performed better against the western conference team than eastern conference teams. If he was playing in the west his team could be performing better than he is now??

interesting. those numbers surprised me.

 

[speakup23]

LBJ isnt better than MJ now, but he has potential to be. Point Blank.

The thing that gets me is the hate for LeBron. I was having this argument with some dude a few minutes ago. Dude said LeBron is overrated/gets too much credit

**%% had me heated.

 

[speakup23]

LBJ isnt better than MJ now, but he has potential to be. Point Blank.

The thing that gets me is the hate for LeBron. I was having this argument with some dude a few minutes ago. Dude said LeBron is overrated/gets too much credit

**%% had me heated.

 

[onionslice]

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Originally Posted by Cfranchise26

Soooo Now we doing Lebron over Kobe
let be real people, in all honesty Lebron >>>>> Kobe

Kobe had a better coach

Better supporting cast

Had the top Center in L when they won Chips

Lebron had a good good coach

pitiful team, i mean his starting 5 had boobie gibson and Varejao

not to mention he took them to the finals in his 4th season with the bum %$% Cavs

Also Lebron has better stats

Kobe did NOT have a better supporting cast than Lebron. Lebron took them to the finals because of the horrible eastern conference (aside from 1 or 2 teams). And when Lebron finally went against a west team in the playoffs, they got swept.
"Also Lebron has better stats"

Uhm.. ok? That means nothing. Like I said, that's like saying Oscar is better than Jordan because of stats.

Lol @ your excuses for Kobe. You claim the only reason he has a low FG% is becuase his lack of a supporting cast for a few years. You know what, I'll give you that. But what about now? Why did he lead the league in missed shots this year when he had the highest paid most stacked roster in the NBA. Why did he have the highest usage in the league and didn't have more assists?

And stats mean nothing? They don't mean everything, just almost everything. When you make a basket, that's a stat. When you steal the ball, that's a stat. When you foul someone, that's a stat. When you win a game, that's a stat. Stats are not some technical miniscule details that are just numbers on a page. They're what you do and what happened, written down. If i told you, "ZOMGZ, Kobe scored 81 points", would you say "that's just a stat. That doesn't mean anything"?

 

[onionslice]

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Originally Posted by Cfranchise26

Soooo Now we doing Lebron over Kobe
let be real people, in all honesty Lebron >>>>> Kobe

Kobe had a better coach

Better supporting cast

Had the top Center in L when they won Chips

Lebron had a good good coach

pitiful team, i mean his starting 5 had boobie gibson and Varejao

not to mention he took them to the finals in his 4th season with the bum %$% Cavs

Also Lebron has better stats

Kobe did NOT have a better supporting cast than Lebron. Lebron took them to the finals because of the horrible eastern conference (aside from 1 or 2 teams). And when Lebron finally went against a west team in the playoffs, they got swept.
"Also Lebron has better stats"

Uhm.. ok? That means nothing. Like I said, that's like saying Oscar is better than Jordan because of stats.

Lol @ your excuses for Kobe. You claim the only reason he has a low FG% is becuase his lack of a supporting cast for a few years. You know what, I'll give you that. But what about now? Why did he lead the league in missed shots this year when he had the highest paid most stacked roster in the NBA. Why did he have the highest usage in the league and didn't have more assists?

And stats mean nothing? They don't mean everything, just almost everything. When you make a basket, that's a stat. When you steal the ball, that's a stat. When you foul someone, that's a stat. When you win a game, that's a stat. Stats are not some technical miniscule details that are just numbers on a page. They're what you do and what happened, written down. If i told you, "ZOMGZ, Kobe scored 81 points", would you say "that's just a stat. That doesn't mean anything"?

 

[JAYxSF415]

 

[onionslice]

Originally Posted by SpeakUp23

LBJ isnt better than MJ now, but he has potential to be. Point Blank.

The thing that gets me is the hate for LeBron. I was having this argument with some dude a few minutes ago. Dude said LeBron is overrated/gets too much credit

**%% had me heated.

Kobe stans hate LeBron because he shatters their fantasy of Kobe being the best. MJ worshipers hate him because they want MJ to be the best FOREVER and LeBron is a legit threat to dethrone him. MJ is still the best, but there WILL be someone better at some point. Eventually, it's gonna happen. NOBODY stays on top forever. Wilt STILL has multiple records that will never be broken, but better players have come along since his day. 

 

[JAYxSF415]

 

[onionslice]

Originally Posted by SpeakUp23

LBJ isnt better than MJ now, but he has potential to be. Point Blank.

The thing that gets me is the hate for LeBron. I was having this argument with some dude a few minutes ago. Dude said LeBron is overrated/gets too much credit

**%% had me heated.

Kobe stans hate LeBron because he shatters their fantasy of Kobe being the best. MJ worshipers hate him because they want MJ to be the best FOREVER and LeBron is a legit threat to dethrone him. MJ is still the best, but there WILL be someone better at some point. Eventually, it's gonna happen. NOBODY stays on top forever. Wilt STILL has multiple records that will never be broken, but better players have come along since his day. 

 

[cornzilla]

Originally Posted by TennHouse2

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

Originally Posted by TennHouse2

or that he was playing with one of the worst supporting casts in the history of the NBA and yes way worse then the Cavs' when lebron was there

didn't kobe still have lamar odom? who's better than mo williams?
not to mention phil jackson?

bring any year of kobe, i can EASILY back up with bron's 

lol every single player on that cavs roster was better then everyone on the lakers roster besides Kobe and Lamar and we both know that, dont even try to go there with that argument...

Ok this is a semi valid point cause honestly both teams had the worst supporting cast that year. Which one is worse is hard to tell cause let's be honest it's like telling someone to pick their poison. No #1 option would want to be stuck with those group of player. 
Laker - Lamar Odom, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Devean George.... 

Besides Odom none of those other player would even start on another team. (Ok kwame started a couple of games with the bobcats but look at the past couple of season 32 starts in 3 years

)

Cavs -Big Z, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Donyell Marshall, Damon Jones, Eric Snow, Varejao, Ronald Murray...

Yeah beside Varejao everyone else is either out of the league of riding the bench somewhere else.

So lets not argue about who had the worst supporting cast cause they both sucked

 

[cornzilla]

Originally Posted by TennHouse2

Originally Posted by HANNSUM

Originally Posted by TennHouse2

or that he was playing with one of the worst supporting casts in the history of the NBA and yes way worse then the Cavs' when lebron was there

didn't kobe still have lamar odom? who's better than mo williams?
not to mention phil jackson?

bring any year of kobe, i can EASILY back up with bron's 

lol every single player on that cavs roster was better then everyone on the lakers roster besides Kobe and Lamar and we both know that, dont even try to go there with that argument...

Ok this is a semi valid point cause honestly both teams had the worst supporting cast that year. Which one is worse is hard to tell cause let's be honest it's like telling someone to pick their poison. No #1 option would want to be stuck with those group of player. 
Laker - Lamar Odom, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Devean George.... 

Besides Odom none of those other player would even start on another team. (Ok kwame started a couple of games with the bobcats but look at the past couple of season 32 starts in 3 years

)

Cavs -Big Z, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Donyell Marshall, Damon Jones, Eric Snow, Varejao, Ronald Murray...

Yeah beside Varejao everyone else is either out of the league of riding the bench somewhere else.

So lets not argue about who had the worst supporting cast cause they both sucked

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Please lock this up.

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Please lock this up.

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Kobe did NOT have a better supporting cast than Lebron. Lebron took them to the finals because of the horrible eastern conference (aside from 1 or 2 teams). And when Lebron finally went against a west team in the playoffs, they got swept.
"Also Lebron has better stats"

Uhm.. ok? That means nothing. Like I said, that's like saying Oscar is better than Jordan because of stats.

Lol @ your excuses for Kobe. You claim the only reason he has a low FG% is becuase his lack of a supporting cast for a few years. You know what, I'll give you that. But what about now? Why did he lead the league in missed shots this year when he had the highest paid most stacked roster in the NBA. Why did he have the highest usage in the league and didn't have more assists?

And stats mean nothing? They don't mean everything, just almost everything. When you make a basket, that's a stat. When you steal the ball, that's a stat. When you foul someone, that's a stat. When you win a game, that's a stat. Stats are not some technical miniscule details that are just numbers on a page. They're what you do and what happened, written down. If i told you, "ZOMGZ, Kobe scored 81 points", would you say "that's just a stat. That doesn't mean anything"?

I also said that Kobe has a low fg% because he mainly shoots 3's and 18-footers. While Lebron attacks the basket most of the time and mainly gets his points in the paint from dunks and layups.
Chris Paul has a better FG% than Lebron, but does that make him a better player? No. Yes stats are important to an extent, but it shouldn't be the main reason to why someone is better than someone else.

And yeah, I'll give you that. Kobe shoots WAY too much, and that's why he misses all those shots. But his game-winners, clutch shots, clutch 3's, and scoring outburts in the playoffs make up for that imo.

Someone posted the stats for this Bron has for the last 2 0r 3 yrs ranked in the top 5, Kobe has never even sniffed close to being top tier in shooting % from outside. And his 80 point tear was against a depleted raptors team. Even these so call rise to the occasion situations. Um lets not act like the 1st three chips werent contributed to shaq being there. Oh no you say thats right, they came up with hack a kobe. I swore it was hack a shaq but maybe your right. And that last championship lets not act like isnt wasnt gasol play who got them the chip. And the whole if lebron etc played in the west etc while in cle. They dominated whenever they were on west coast trips including kobe and the lakers.

its funny ppl say the east was so weak then say kobe got 80 points and a bunch of 50 point games yet he did these things shooting tons of shots oh... and did it against the weak east. So i guess thos nights the east wasnt weak huh?

 

[ldj]

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Originally Posted by OnionSlice

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Kobe did NOT have a better supporting cast than Lebron. Lebron took them to the finals because of the horrible eastern conference (aside from 1 or 2 teams). And when Lebron finally went against a west team in the playoffs, they got swept.
"Also Lebron has better stats"

Uhm.. ok? That means nothing. Like I said, that's like saying Oscar is better than Jordan because of stats.

Lol @ your excuses for Kobe. You claim the only reason he has a low FG% is becuase his lack of a supporting cast for a few years. You know what, I'll give you that. But what about now? Why did he lead the league in missed shots this year when he had the highest paid most stacked roster in the NBA. Why did he have the highest usage in the league and didn't have more assists?

And stats mean nothing? They don't mean everything, just almost everything. When you make a basket, that's a stat. When you steal the ball, that's a stat. When you foul someone, that's a stat. When you win a game, that's a stat. Stats are not some technical miniscule details that are just numbers on a page. They're what you do and what happened, written down. If i told you, "ZOMGZ, Kobe scored 81 points", would you say "that's just a stat. That doesn't mean anything"?

I also said that Kobe has a low fg% because he mainly shoots 3's and 18-footers. While Lebron attacks the basket most of the time and mainly gets his points in the paint from dunks and layups.
Chris Paul has a better FG% than Lebron, but does that make him a better player? No. Yes stats are important to an extent, but it shouldn't be the main reason to why someone is better than someone else.

And yeah, I'll give you that. Kobe shoots WAY too much, and that's why he misses all those shots. But his game-winners, clutch shots, clutch 3's, and scoring outburts in the playoffs make up for that imo.

Someone posted the stats for this Bron has for the last 2 0r 3 yrs ranked in the top 5, Kobe has never even sniffed close to being top tier in shooting % from outside. And his 80 point tear was against a depleted raptors team. Even these so call rise to the occasion situations. Um lets not act like the 1st three chips werent contributed to shaq being there. Oh no you say thats right, they came up with hack a kobe. I swore it was hack a shaq but maybe your right. And that last championship lets not act like isnt wasnt gasol play who got them the chip. And the whole if lebron etc played in the west etc while in cle. They dominated whenever they were on west coast trips including kobe and the lakers.

its funny ppl say the east was so weak then say kobe got 80 points and a bunch of 50 point games yet he did these things shooting tons of shots oh... and did it against the weak east. So i guess thos nights the east wasnt weak huh?