***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Nereyda Vuelve Por Dios]

This is a great example of how this administration is paving the way with criminal justice reform (for white people).

just like everything else in america, anything deemed beneficial To the disenfranchized has to pass thru the privileged first.
Just to make sure it aint too good.

this will
Be one of those things.

 

[aepps20]

Team Trump outchea being petty, and dog whistling sexism and racism again...

Spoiler

I got say, this jab landed clean on Liz doe. She did it to herself ...

Spoiler

OUR PRESIDENT ELECT DESTROYED THESE LIBS. ONLY THING THAT WOULD'VE BEEN BETTER IF HE POSTED A PIC OF KAMALA AS A COP.

 

[aepps20]

Rona is killing us off but our President ELECT knows what really matters

 

[DLF]

just like everything else in america, anything deemed beneficial To the disenfranchized has to pass thru the privileged first.
Just to make sure it aint too good.

this will
Be one of those things.

White people are Americans too. If they are helped, it’s like we all are helped. One of us eats, we all eat.
BarronTrump2024

 

[frink85]

Civility though....

Joe might not be all there anymore but I need to see him troll Donnie during a debate. Just throw out nonsense and give him the Stone Cold treatment whenever he starts talking "my policy on..." "WHAT"

 

[DLF]

OUR PRESIDENT ELECT DESTROYED THESE LIBS. ONLY THING THAT WOULD'VE BEEN BETTER IF HE POSTED A PIC OF KAMALA AS A COP.

Also remember Kamala is half Indian. Indians eat spicy food. Spicy food gives you heartburn. libs want to elect her bc Pelosi has stock in Zantac. This chess not checkers guys. Wake up

 

[whywesteppin]

Joe's cabinet is FIRE. If he assembles that team we're going to have a great 4 years.

If Barron could run though he would get my vote over both Don and Joe.

 

[storm2006]

First Step Act fellas.

Give the man a break. It's clear that Delk is so adamant and passionate about the First Step Act because it reminds him of his first time time tap dancing for his zaddy. He gets teary eyed just thinking about it

 

[-Red-]

I remember many years ago this guy I worked with telling me I had to see The Big Lebowski, it's the funniest movie ever, he couldn't believe I hadn't seen it, etc. So I watched it.

What a terrible ******* movie.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I liked it.

It dragged in the middle but I thought it was funny for what it was.

 

[Mark Antony]

Met many a white dude who say it's an amazing movie. Still haven't watched it.

Actually just realized those dudes generally looked like "the dude" too, long hair and all. I'll check it out one day.

 

[-Red-]

Ezra Klein wrote and insightful essay about identity politics and the Democratic Party...



Yeah, that's why leftist, liberals, centrist, and conservatives that bemoan identity politics on the left can piss off, IMO. Most of these critics never want to engage with the subject in a productive manner. It is always framed as something negative that doesn't allow the truth to come through. And maybe it is time for the people that claim they want to build a multiracial coalition to fight the for the greater good, but feel that the only way to do so is embrace a form of politics that makes white people comfortable, might want to do some self reflection.

And the Dems needs to prioritize pushing through electoral reform so we can strip socially conservative whites of all the dispropriate amount of political power they have.

I can't speak for others, but my rejection of identity politics is rooted in the fact that it is a completely inadequate framework for understanding, confronting, and addressing inequality as experienced by poor and working-class black folks. This is a reality that no one who promotes identity politics seems capable of acknowledging, much less coming to terms with, or of offering anything approximating a meaningful political program in response to. That is a truth that is not allowed to come through, period point-blank, regardless of the alleged issue about "what makes white people comfortable."

So perhaps it's time for some self-reflection from those folks—whatever their various identities, racial and otherwise, may be.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I can't speak for others, but my rejection of identity politics is rooted in the fact that it is a completely inadequate framework for understanding, confronting, and addressing inequality as experienced by poor and working-class black folks. This is a reality that no one who promotes identity politics seems capable of acknowledging, much less coming to terms with, or of offering anything approximating a meaningful political program in response to. That is a truth that is not allowed to come through, period point-blank, regardless of the alleged issue about "what makes white people comfortable."

So perhaps it's time for some self-reflection from those folks—whatever their various identities, racial and otherwise, may be.

Cool, do you.

Because I feel that you are missing my and point once again, and I don't care to discuss/explain it again.

All I will say is that leftist like you practice your own brand of identity politics, while decrying identity politics.

 

[-Red-]

Cool, do you.

Because I feel that you are missing my point once again.

And I don't care to discuss it

I don't know what point you think I'm missing, and you don't have to explain anything you don't want to.

But I stand by what I said in relation to that article and your comments. I have posed these same kinds of questions/issues a number of times in here and have gotten basically no response from anyone. Which is fine, no one is obligated to respond to anything. But it's not that I'm not engaging in the arguments that people are making or that they're going over my head. I made a critique of identity politics that cuts directly against the broad brush with which you painted its critics. If you or anyone else has a response to the point I made in my initial response to your post, I'm all ears.

 

[noskey]

The Big Lebowski is a god damn treasure and the Coen Brothers are god damn jeniuses.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I don't know what point you think I'm missing, and you don't have to explain anything you don't want to.

But I stand by what I said in relation to that article and your comments. I have posed these same kinds of questions/issues a number of times in here and have gotten basically no response from anyone. Which is fine, no one is obligated to respond to anything. But it's not that I'm not engaging in the arguments that people are making or that they're going over my head. I made a critique of identity politics that cuts directly against the broad brush with which you painted its critics. If you or anyone else has a response to the point I made in my initial response to your post, I'm all ears.

Nah, I'm good.

For my own sanity, I'm good.

 

[-Red-]

Nah, I'm good.

For my own sanity, I'm good.

Cool, do you.

But whenever these kinds of issues arise and I'm around to see it, I'm gonna push back—first and foremost because they are inadequate and problematic for (and in many cases hostile toward) poor and working-class black folks, the very people this way of framing the issues is ostensibly designed to empower and help.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Cool, do you.

But whenever these kinds of issues arise and I'm around to see it, I'm gonna push back—first and foremost because they are inadequate and problematic for (and in many cases hostile toward) poor and working-class black folks, the very people this way of framing the issues is ostensibly designed to empower and help.

Sure, whatever you say man.

 

[-Red-]

Sure, whatever man.

You keep making these dismissive comments like I'm being disingenuous or something.

I don't really know why, but it's all love though.

 

[QU!K]

Russia offered Afghan militants bounties to kill U.S. troops: NY Times

U.S. intelligence has concluded that the Russian military offered bounties to Taliban-linked militants in Afghanistan to kill American troops and other coalition forces, the New York Times reported on Friday, citing officials briefed on the matter.

www.reuters.com

 

[boris]

I'm not gonna lie I feel like Pence's answer mirrors the kind of answers dwalk gives to questions with obvious answers.

 

[RustyShackleford]

p

You keep making these dismissive comments like I'm being disingenuous or something.

I don't really know why, but it's all love though.

If explain my positions numerous times, and still get greeted with implication that it is something else, when why should I want to go down that rabbit hole again? Huh?

If it is problematic for me to point out that a group that routinely fails to build the coalition needed to get anything done, let alone their policy agenda (yet still want to lecture about how to build coalitions to get things done) might have it a lil wrong, then cool, I'll be problematic.

If it is problematic to point out that there is a different way to look at identity and the power it has in politics, beyond the common framing centrist, leftist, conservatives and many liberals use. Then cool, I'll be problematic.

I'll happily be that.

So go ahead and point out how you feel liberal have it wrong, ascribe that to all liberals (paint with a wide brush after you take issue with me supposedly doing that), then drop that position at my feet if you want to.

But just know I am no mood to engage with that **** right now.

Some part of me wants to expand on my point in detail, but another part of me has the feeling it would be pointless.

So yeah, it is whatever to me.

 

[rexanglorum]

English has duplicate words for meat you get from a sheep and yet we have this word "idpol" or "identity politics" which has multiple meanings. This pivotal thing is covered by one ambiguous term that contains conflicting meanings.

The good Idpol is one where we bring all workers together and white comrades acknowledge that black comrades face additional exploitation and if our revolution does not address that then we will have failed. If cishet male comrades do not acknowledge and work to overcome additional exploitation of our LGBTQIA comrades, our revolution will have failed. If our revolution leaves women and PoC in a subordinate position, our revolution will have failed. If white men enjoy one hours' worth of stolen labor from women or PoC, our revolution will have not been a revolution but rather it will have been a migration from oligarchic capitalism to harrenvolk capitalism. If large groups of workers exploit other workers, you have simply expanded who is bourgeois along racial or gender lines.

The bad idol is the sort that divides the working class. If your world view holds that an underpaid call center worker, who is 2nd generation Vietnamese America and who is bisexual, is existentially different from a second generation Vietnamese America underpaid call center worker who is straight and who works in the same call center, you've just indulged in rainbow capitalism. If two people, working next to each other are considered different species because each and every aspect of their identity is not identical, that is convenient for the bosses and it is that much harder to organize them to fight for their shared interests as workers.

IMO the problem with liberal idpol is that no one is a worker. People are black or white or Asian or gay or straight etc. So when liberals here a call, from Marxists, to unite all workers, the assumption is that it must mean the social default in our settler colonial country, white males. But for Marxists, we mean all workers and the more hyper exploited you are the more urgent your struggle.


Also, the liberal notion that white workers must wait until we solve racism is very cynical. We cannot even solve racism let alone manage it without massive redistribution and that sort of redistribution requires the destruction of capital, as a political force. But we cannot do that until we solve racism. That seems like a catch 22 so we must settle for Amazon executives using Juneteenth for austere mediation (while the workers toil away), we must settle for some $10,000 an hour diversity training for mostly white middle and upper managers. We can't solve capitalism until we solve racism which we can't even try to do until we solve capitalism. Too bad, I guess.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yep, ******* pointless to engage.

 

[mplsdunk]

Big Lebowski is ok. Just a movie to me. It’s not bad but I don’t get the hype.