***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[gry60]

And got away with it scot free. With no indication that he can't get away with it again, in addition to all the other blatant crimes he committed while in office. Let's vote more. Even tho he lost the popular vote in the first place.

It helps if you look at where we are as a succession of events and not just one event (the 2016 election).

What happened that year was the result of a long campaign that started with the loss of the House to the GOP in 2010 (redistricting year), followed by the refusal of the House to renew the voting rights act in 2013, which led to the instant creation of voter ID laws and the closing of voting places in largely Democratic leaning areas of the country with GOP state assemblies.

The GOP knows voting matters, that's why they need to stop or discourage people from participating.

 

[whywesteppin]

Crazy bastards reposed in black/white

feeling cute. why not?

 

[Belgium]

You do realize that the prior administration refused to give Ukraine the very aide that Trump gave.

So that narrative of that not happening but for the house is wrong on its face.

Lethal weapons were not approved under the Obama administration, technically he couldn't withhold something that was not approved.
It is true that the Trump administration increased the aid to Ukraine, including lethal weaponry.

The Democrats in the House helped stop the illegal hold on the aid. Trump lifted the hold just 2 days after Congress made public that the ICIG had informed them that Acting DNI Maguire overruled his independent determination and was withholding the whistleblower complaint from Congress. I should note that since then, roughly 70 Office of Inspectors General personnel signatories sent a letter to DOJ in which they rebuked the new OLC opinion that was issued to block the complaint from going to Congress. The signatories, including DOJ's own Inspector General, argued that the OLC opinion was unsupported by law and posed a grave threat to the whistleblower system by allowing Inspector Generals' formerly independent determinations to be overruled. OLC opinions are binding to the executive branch, thus the independence of the OIG has been eliminated.

According to testimony during the impeachment inquiry, Sondland said on September 8 that he had gotten a commitment from Zelensky that he would publicly announce the requested investigations during a CNN interview scheduled for September 13.
House Democrats' announcement threw that plan in disarray. The WH knew since late August what was in the whistleblower complaint, and thus Trump lifted the hold when it became clear that Congress had learned some details via ICIG Atkinson.

For the record, WaPo reported yesterday that Trump also has ICIG Atkinson in his crosshairs for a possible firing. Trump has publicly attacked him for following the law.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

tbf, Impeachment helped curb his corruption campaign and got Ukraine the aid that it needed; something that probably wouldn't have happened if we didn't vote Dems into the House. And while he lost the popular vote, it was by a narrow enough margin for him to win, so yea', if we voted more that would probably be good

What reason is there for anyone to believe that this election will be any different? Genuinely asking. Just doesn't seem logical to think you can vote out someone who just got away with sabotaging the voting system without consequence.

It helps if you look at where we are as a succession of events and not just one event (the 2016 election).

What happened that year was the result of a long campaign that started with the loss of the House to the GOP in 2010 (redistricting year), followed by the refusal of the House to renew the voting rights act in 2013, which led to the instant creation of voter ID laws and the closing of voting places in largely Democratic leaning areas of the country with GOP state assemblies.

The GOP knows voting matters, that's why they need to stop or discourage people from participating.

That actually doesn't help. It gives me less confidence in the government to rectify the situation and shows how easily it can be compromised.

 

[dwalk31]

Lethal weapons were not approved under the Obama administration, technically he couldn't withhold something that was not approved.
It is true that the Trump administration increased the aid to Ukraine, including lethal weaponry.

The Democrats in the House helped stop the illegal hold on the aid. Trump lifted the hold just 2 days after Congress made public that the ICIG had informed them that Acting DNI Maguire overruled his independent determination and was withholding the whistleblower complaint from Congress. I should note that since then, roughly 70 Office of Inspectors General personnel signatories sent a letter to DOJ in which they rebuked the new OLC opinion that was issued to block the complaint from going to Congress. The signatories, including DOJ's own Inspector General, argued that the OLC opinion was unsupported by law and posed a grave threat to the whistleblower system by allowing Inspector Generals' formerly independent determinations to be overruled. OLC opinions are binding to the executive branch, thus the independence of the OIG has been eliminated.

According to testimony during the impeachment inquiry, Sondland said on September 8 that he had gotten a commitment from Zelensky that he would publicly announce the requested investigations during a CNN interview scheduled for September 13.
House Democrats' announcement threw that plan in disarray. The WH knew since late August what was in the whistleblower complaint, and thus Trump lifted the hold when it became clear that Congress had learned some details via ICIG Atkinson.

For the record, WaPo reported yesterday that Trump also has ICIG Atkinson in his crosshairs for a possible firing. Trump has publicly attacked him for following the law.

The other poster made it seem as if Democrats were clamoring to give lethal weapons to Ukraine prior To Trump, and thanks to impeachment Ukraine got the aide they needed.

That’s simply false.

 

[dwalk31]

What reason is there for anyone to believe that this election will be any different? Genuinely asking. Just doesn't seem logical to think you can vote out someone who just got away with sabotaging the voting system without consequence.


That actually doesn't help. It gives me less confidence in the government to rectify the situation and shows how easily it can be compromised.

Are you trying to convince people voting doesn’t matter?

That’s an interesting take.

 

[Mark Antony]

Crazy bastards reposed in black/white

Lmao he looks like Violator

 

[Belgium]

dwalk31
What are your thoughts on the Barr DOJ eliminating the independence of Inspector Generals’ determinations? A decision unsupported by law according to numerous active Inspectors General.

Council of Inspectors General letter to DOJ:
https://www.ignet.gov/sites/default/files/files/CIGIE_Letter_to_OLC_Whistleblower_Disclosure.pdf


It is also pretty obvious that theoverruling of the ICIG was done to protect Trump. The signatories in the above letter all agree that ICIG Atkinson’s determination was correct. Even if it wasn’t, they argue no law supports overruling the formerly independent determination of an Inspector General.

 

[mr s j king]

And got away with it scot free. With no indication that he can't get away with it again, in addition to all the other blatant crimes he committed while in office. Let's vote more. Even tho he lost the popular vote in the first place.

I'm voting for whoever says they're going to put Trump and his kids in jail
Edit: Excluding Barron

 

[gry60]

You do realize that the prior administration refused to give Ukraine the very aide that Trump gave.

So that narrative of that not happening but for the house is wrong on its face.

The previous administration gave a different kind of aid because at the time javelin missiles weren't judged necessary.

Trump stalled the aid when Zelensky got elected, most likely because the racket he had set up with the previous administration (Manafort) couldn't go on with a new Ukrainian government.

 

[Belgium]

Actually, the Obama WH’s rationale was that providing lethal weaponry would expand the bloodshed and could create a further pretext for Putin to expand the conflict.

I disagree with that rationale because Putin doesn’t need a pretext to annex a country. One day Putin decided Crimea belonged to Russia and he proceeded with annexation. In short, Putin doesn’t care. If he believes he can do it, he will try. The ‘pretext’ for the Crimea annexation came after the fact, in the form of a post-annexation poll that said ~97% of Crimea residents wanted to join the Russian Federation.

Ukraine needs lethal weaponry to defend itself in the Donbas region against Russia-backed separatists.

 

[dwalk31]

dwalk31
What are your thoughts on the Barr DOJ eliminating the independence of Inspector Generals’ determinations? A decision unsupported by law according to numerous active Inspectors General.

Council of Inspectors General letter to DOJ:
https://www.ignet.gov/sites/default/files/files/CIGIE_Letter_to_OLC_Whistleblower_Disclosure.pdf


It is also pretty obvious that theoverruling of the ICIG was done to protect Trump. The signatories in the above letter all agree that ICIG Atkinson’s determination was correct. Even if it wasn’t, they argue no law supports overruling the formerly independent determination of an Inspector General.

As an initial matter, let me post the Engel letter so that the full picture is here:

https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/file/1205711/download

I think the legal reasoning in this letter is sound. “Urgent concern” like “reasonable” is one of those words that is open to interpretation. Could it have a chilling effect? Perhaps. But it’s tough to say.

Saying there’s no law that supports overruling is pretty unpersuasive unless you can point to a law that prohibits the OLC from coming to a different conclusion than the ICIG.

I think reasonable legal minds can disagree on what qualifies as an “urgent concern.” And nothing prohibits the OLC from coming to a different conclusion than the ICIG.

 

[Quincy McCall]

What reason is there for anyone to believe that this election will be any different? Genuinely asking. Just doesn't seem logical to think you can vote out someone who just got away with sabotaging the voting system without consequence.


That actually doesn't help. It gives me less confidence in the government to rectify the situation and shows how easily it can be compromised.

You can't be sure, that's why you vote with your conscious. Not voting would be detrimental to the cause at hand no matter how you look at it

 

[mr s j king]

The previous administration gave a different kind of aid because at the time javelin missiles weren't judged necessary.

Trump stalled the aid when Zelensky got elected, most likely because the racket he had set up with the previous administration (Manafort) couldn't go on with a new Ukrainian government.

You're being too diplomatic
Let me help you out

He abso-in-lutely held back that aid because his Ukrainian drug kingpin homeboy got knocked out the box
Ambassador Yovanovitch had Guiliani weak asss scared to move forward with the scam
His punk asss cries to Trump, Trump cries about it to Parnas and they help him set up the plan to withhold the aid

 

[dacomeup]

All fun and games, until it happens. The debate stage last night was not a good look.

Plus Trump Super Bowl ad dollars were spent highlighting Alice Johnson. Then you have the money to HBCUs, First Step Act, Fair Chance Act, etc.

The idea that the Democrats would have passed those things without Republican obstruction seems like a hard sell. At best, it’s an admission of the inability of the Democratic Party to get what it wants done.

Right, and what you basing this off? Your black professional friends?

Trump is polling very low with black voters. For the vast majority of us, we look at how he disparages the intelligence of black elected officials, calls black countries "**** hole countries", speaks about how black people in this country live and squalor and ask "what do we have to lose" voting for him, empowers and emboldens white supremacists, appoints "tough on crime" and "rule of law" people to run his DOJ, hires a Sec of Ed who is seeking to destroy public education in this country, reverses Obama administration policy on phasing out privatized prisons, among many other examples that I could name.

No one is falling for your right wing talking points, especially as wealth disparity is rapidly increasing and hate crimes are rising. Go to an HBCU and ask about Donald Trump. Go to an actual black community and ask about Donald Trump. You're full of **** and the numbers back it up.

 

[aepps20]

The moment I take advice from a dude that supports Republican Pedos is the moment I stop posting.

 

[RustyShackleford]

dwalk31 is so full of ****.

All those positives for Trump are things the Dems pushed for, for years, and the GOP blocked them. But black people are suppose to be stupid enough to not know this.

He really thinks Trump is gonna win the black vote

Even better that NT's resident racist is the one that wanted his consultation on this issue.

If the GOP can successfully suppress enough votes the Dem candidate might only get in the high 80s instead of 90s. But that is the limit.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Right, and what you basing this off? Your black professional friends?

Trump is polling very low with black voters. For the vast majority of us, we look at how he disparages the intelligence of black elected officials, calls black countries "**** hole countries", speaks about how black people in this country live and squalor and ask "what do we have to lose" voting for him, empowers and emboldens what supremacists, appoints "tough on crime" and "rule of law" people to run his DOJ, hires a Sec of Ed who is seeking to destroy public education in this country, reverses Obama administration policy on phasing out privatized prisons, among many other examples that I could name.

No one is falling for your right wing talking points, especially as wealth disparity is rapidly increasing and hate crimes are rising. Go to an HBCU and ask about Donald Trump. Go to an actual black community and ask about Donald Trump. You're full of **** and the numbers back it up.

If dude really is black, doesn't sound like knows many black people. Except those magical conservative black professionals

 

[Belgium]

As an initial matter, let me post the Engel letter so that the full picture is here:

https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/file/1205711/download

I think the legal reasoning in this letter is sound. “Urgent concern” like “reasonable” is one of those words that is open to interpretation. Could it have a chilling effect? Perhaps. But it’s tough to say.

Saying there’s no law that supports overruling is pretty unpersuasive unless you can point to a law that prohibits the OLC from coming to a different conclusion than the ICIG.

I think reasonable legal minds can disagree on what qualifies as an “urgent concern.” And nothing prohibits the OLC from coming to a different conclusion than the ICIG.

It is open to the interpretation of the Inspector General. It is up to the IG to determine independently if the criteria for “credible” and “urgent concern” are met. This process is outlined in the statutes on the authority of IC Inspectors General. As the dozens of Inspectors General point out in their letter, the determination is specifically entrusted to the IG because of their independence.
As the ICWPA states, within 14 days of receiving a complaint the ICIG must make a determination. If the ICIG determined the complaint was “credible” and an “urgent concern”, the DNI must transmit it to Congress within 10 days after receipt of the ICIG determination.

Offices of Inspectors General were established precisely to act as independent investigators within their respective agencies.
Never before has an Inspector General’s independent determination been overruled.
This OLC opinion has effectively stripped Inspectors General of their independence.

This same OLC also fabricated an opinion that violates the statute that forces the Treasury Secretary to turn over “any returns” upon receipt of a written request by a chairman of the congressional committees authorized to do so by the statute.
The statute explicitly states that the Treasury Secretary “shall” transmit “any returns”

The OLC ignored the word shall and added an additional requirement so Mnuchin was bound by the OLC to not comply with the statute.
There is nothing ambiguous about “shall” and “any returns.”

 

[aepps20]

Dude runs around yelling for due process for people that look like him yet he only cares when scumbags like Roy Moore are in trouble. Based on these facts, reasonable minds could conclude that if Roy Moore had a son, he'd look like dwalk31

 

[IATT]

If dude really is black, doesn't sound like knows many black people. Except those magical black conservative black professionals

 

[rexanglorum]

And this is coming from a Black conservative. Self awareness seems to be in short supply these days.

Folks, I waaaas watching the Demonrat debate last night and there were no black bodies on stage. Folks, where are the black bodies. There were no black bodies in that very white space, sad.

-Woke Donald

 

[Belgium]

One glaring issue Trump has with gaining black support is that polls have consistently shown that an overwhelming majority of black Americans believe he is racist.

A July Quinnipiac national poll stated 80% of black Americans believes he is racist, 11% does not. 91% of Republicans believe Trump is not racist.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ninja probably thinks If he makes friends with dwalk then dwalk will let him live in one of his rental properties sheds or something.

He loves when he has conservative company.

He was repping all Blco's post when he was around. Rico was his buddy after that.

 

[plansb]

He loves when he has conservative company.

He was repping all Blco's post when he was around. Rico was his buddy after that.

The marginalized nters stick together. Warms my heart.