***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[dwalk31]

I mean they have whistleblower protection acts for this very situation

Safe to say this situation has nothing to do with that.

 

[Belgium]

I mean they have whistleblower protection acts for this very situation

That would be correct if they went through a formal whistleblower process. They testified under oath, which is a separate process and thus the Whistleblower Protection Act does not apply to them.

If Trump were to order the firing of the alleged whistleblower, who works at the CIA and thus can't be directly removed by Trump, his removal would be illegal because he is covered against job retaliation under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act.

 

[junglejim]

Safe to say this situation has nothing to do with that.

I’ll post it again. Seems like getting fired for testifying about potential legal violations would seem, um, to fit here

 

[dwalk31]

I’ll post it again. Seems like getting fired for testifying about potential legal violations would seem, um, to fit here

Trust me, this doesn’t apply. Belgium is right. Trump was 100% within his right to fire them.

There might be a moral question, but legally he’s within his rights.

 

[Belgium]

I’ll post it again. Seems like getting fired for testifying about potential legal violations would seem, um, to fit here

The distinction is in the process. In order to legally qualify as a whistleblower, you have to follow the formal whistleblower process. In other words, filing a whistleblower complaint with the relevant agency's Inspector General.
While those who testify about wrongdoing are colloquially called whistleblowers, they do not legally qualify as a whistleblower unless they followed that formal procedure.

The only person protected by whistleblower protections is the one who filed the formal whistleblower complaint that uncovered the Ukraine scheme.

 

[junglejim]

The distinction is in the process. In order to legally qualify as a whistleblower, you have to follow the formal whistleblower process. In other words, filing a complaint with the agency's Inspector General.
While those who testify about wrongdoing are colloquially called whistleblowers, they do not legally qualify as a whistleblower unless they followed the formal procedure.

The only person protected by whistleblower protections is the one who filed the formal whistleblower complaint that uncovered the Ukraine scheme.

what a stupid ******* law

 

[Belgium]

what a stupid ****ing law

The Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA) is a flawed law in general. Whistleblowers who followed the process have still routinely been subjected to retaliation due to gaps in the law, specifically in intelligence agencies.
I have to correct an earlier error, the ICWPA actually does not protect against job retaliation. It simply allows IC employees to legally disclose classified information to an agency Inspector General, who in turn can allow them to disclose it to Congress.
However, intelligence agencies are required to follow Policy Directive 19, an Obama policy that covers employees against job retaliation if they made a protected disclosure of classified information to the agency's Inspector General.

This still leaves gaps. An agency director could fire the employee for supposed 'national security reasons' instead for example. It also does not protect against criminal prosecution.
It also does not cover individuals who hold positions of a "confidential, policy-determining, policymaking, or policy-advocating character."


In short, the ICWPA is a rather impotent law and IC whistleblowers can still face various kinds of retaliation.

 

[rexanglorum]

I know you are trolling but conservatives really need to stop the struggle libertarian economics and crony capitalism. Listen to liberal progressives on economics because if **** doesn't turn around soon the economic collapse will happen in our lifetime. And the only acceptable economic systems to people after that will be full blown socialism. And communist will have a say in things too.

After that you, me and rexanglorum all gonna be on the same farm co-op, picking avacadoes, calling each other comrade. I know I can handle that, but I know your *** gonna be miserable because the group interest, and public ownership, won't allow you to get a second hunt to use as a rental property.

So yeah, you conservatives really need to starting embracing da New Kenyesian Economics now before it is too late.

I may be in favor of full communism as the ultimate goal yet, I'd be the first to recommend hundreds of policy changes that would make life stable, dignified and worthwhile for every one while allowing private ownership of the means of production to exist.

I am a communist rather than a social democrat for political reasons moreso than economic reasons. My thesis is not original but in short it is that capitalists are so intransigent that it takes extraordinary events (the great depression and world war two and massive labor militancy) just to secure social Democracy for Western Europeans and White men in the US and the capitalists and their politicians and empires opposed even basic labor rights and social safety nets to wage workers and peasants in Asia, Africa and Latin Africans and to PoC and women in the core countries.

Then a generation after winning some degree of social democracy, there is complacency, lack of trans racial expansion and solidarity within unions and the profitability crisis of the 70's and from that, capital found an opening and begins the process of clawing back the relatively meager concessions that it granted to a portion of the working class.

Finally, we get to 2008, where the heavily financialized version of neoliberal capitalism that emerged after the mid 70's, utterly fails. That ensures the triumph of a multi racial coalition who elects progressive like Obama who had plans to make life better for workers and not to harm private business at the same time.

The moment of truth was the way that capital told its Republican and politicians to block anything and everything that could even slightly make life better for ordinary people. Now we have Capital attacking Bernie Sanders and it will attack more left wing politicians as they rise to prominence. Obviously capital did more than obstruct, it worked with white supremacist politicians in the various States to build a business friendly, minoritarian, white supremacist regime.

All of this was in response to Barack Obama. Capital can't accept Obamacare, it will never allow us to have universal healthcare or universal job security or universal food security. Workers have to take it and after all the fighting within and without the electoral system, it would behoove the working class to demolish concentrations of private capital once and for all.

Which is, from a purely utilitarian point of view, detrimental. While I have faith in the ultimate triumph of full communism (abolish of the value form, property and the state) that is a long, multi generational project and in the short run, the state will have to play a big role and the state has and can potentially be a very bad actor as well.

Ideally, we'd have a tripartite economy with State owned industries, worker co-ops and some private business to act as checks on each other and as sources of competition and cross pollination of ideas. In my estimation, we cannot do that because even a diminished, regulated, rump network of private capital will never abide coexistence with an empowered working class and it will sabotage in the short run and attempt to reassert its hegemony in the long run.

To your original point, nothing would sap the strength from the still nascent New American Socialist Movement than Capital making some damn concessions to workers. There is enough money for the rich to stay rich and for all workers to have a good life.

****, Trump has even lobbied the Feds to go into negative interest rate territory like some parts of the EU.

Anytime you can cut taxes and lower interest rates in response to a "booming" economy so when we do eventually go into a recession we have absolutely zero tools at our disposal to increase and incentive spending you have to do it. Its simple economics

There is another tool for economic stimulus, demand side fiscal stimulus. But of course, there is no political will for that right now.

I mentioned earlier that the deregulations and agency interpretations of various rules (along with conservative judges that I didn’t mention) are the most profitable changes, to me. Not the tax cuts.

Also people throw out “average worker” and “the rich” super loosely.

The way folks talk on here it seems most that post consistently would be “the rich.”

I know you see regulations as something done by Libs who just hate business. I, however, see most Federal Regulations on business as being very baseline labor and environmental protections. Rolling back those regulations means cheating workers out of overtime pay, workers getting hurt on the job and more low income people getting sick and dying due to environmental degradation all so capital can enjoy even higher profits.

With tax cuts, one can at least make an aspirational, growth will lift every one sort of argument.

 

[Belgium]

Actually, I did a bit of research and found a law that sounds like it could be applicable, at least in the firing of Lt. Col Vindman's brother. According to 18 U.S.C. § 1515(a)(1), a congressional proceeding such as an investigation or impeachment qualifies as an "official proceeding."
In any case, Barr has announced that nobody under his Attorney General authority can scrutinize Trump before the election without his approval. Thus Trump is effectively immune from investigation until the election as Barr is practically his defense attorney.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1513

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1733-scope-18-usc-1513

 

[dwalk31]

I know you see regulations as something done by Libs who just hate business. I, however, see most Federal Regulations on business as being very baseline labor and environmental protections. Rolling back those regulations means cheating workers out of overtime pay, workers getting hurt on the job and more low income people getting sick and dying due to environmental degradation all so capital can enjoy even higher profits.

With tax cuts, one can at least make an aspirational, growth will lift every one sort of argument.

I actually appreciate that you grasp the point I was making.

As it relates to labor, wage/hour and other employment issues the regulations and interpretations of rules, along with conservative judges, are a positive, and more profitable than the tax cuts, to me.

I disagree with your characterization of the results of said regulations but I doubt we would agree on that.

 

[Chopper]

$1k a month... that ain't going to do ****.

C'mon Lizzie let's get this.

 

[dwalk31]

Pete gettin that heat

 

[RustyShackleford]

Killa Klob coming for Pete's neck like he got the wrong dressing for her salad.

She got that middle aged white women lemme speak to the manager level energy tonight. And Pete is the Kohl's manager that put the sales sign on the wrong item.

 

[IATT]

 

[biggie62]

so that means getting out of NYC in the next 5 years is the right move. Noted.

 

[aepps20]

More issues than the status quo?

More issues than Congress?

As always, I’ll defer to you.

More deplorables you support?


More Butter to spread on the Biscuits?

More Republican Pedos to cape for?

As always, I'll defer to you on DEPLORABLE matters.

 

[junglejim]

never liked Florida anyways

 

[RustyShackleford]

Welp, St Lucia is completely ******

 

[plansb]

Killa Klob coming for Pete's neck like he got the wrong dressing for her salad.

She got that middle aged white women lemme speak to the manager level energy tonight. And Pete is the Kohl's manager that put the sales sign on the wrong item.

karen klobuchar

 

[IATT]

 

[Sonny Corinthos]

I'd give Pilosi the D

 

[Chopper]

Pete showing off on that answer. That MFer can talk... I just can't trust him.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[dacomeup]

Jesus, Biden is washed.