***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

If the GOP base had just gotten behind a moderate or Kaisch, today might have been a huge win for the GOP

But instead they put all our faith in Donald Trump. Someone who is at best incompetent, and at worst, an incompetent bigot.

Every time a legit critique was given about Trump, his supporters deflecting to Clinton. After Donald embarrassed himself over and over, the argument transformed from Trump being some sort of revolutionary candidate, to him being better than Hillary. The only real evidence conservatives could have pointed to, the only legit talking point they could have had was "Trump may be a bigot, but at least he is not a criminal"

Welp, now the FBI took that away from them. So I can see why conservative are upset. But they should not blame the establishment, the FBI, or anyone else for today. Blame yourselves for nominating a man that proven to be such ****, that Hillary Clinton seems like a god send to anyone that is not hardcore right, delusional, or a bigot themselves.

 

[aepps20]

Thanks.

Obamacare is a disaster and has caused costs to skyrocket for businesses and individuals, not decrease by $2500 like he claimed. We need a free market system and the ability to buy across state lines, not a top down system that limits choices.

The bosses that cut pay and lay people off have been affected by increased health care costs, increased materials costs from a weak dollar and Fed money printing, increased regulation and taxes, etc. We need less of that, not more. Unleash business, don't overburden them.

I don't believe unions are the answer. By threatening to stop work if companies don’t pay employees more, unions force companies to layoff some workers. That hurts some union workers. Unions also protect seniority, not the most productive workers. When layoffs occur, it is the most recently hired workers who are laid off first.

Recently, there have been cases of teachers’ unions holding lotteries to see who gets laid off. When was the last time you saw a private company make hiring/firing decisions that way?

Keep your head up my dude. Things will turnaround.

 

[whywesteppin]

that's what it comes down to, my friends.

if we had been given a choice between Hillary and kasich, or even Rubio, a lot of us on the fence from year to year would've at least seriously considered voting Republican.

but instead the choice is a man who represents the basest most disgusting impulses of politics and reactionary America. at every opportunity he has had to take the high road, to demonstrate depth of thought or human decency, he has deferred. all the while he rides the tightrope on unspeakable racism and sexism, things that if he said outright would send a shudder through every Americans spine.

anyway he failed at every critical moment to win me over that i can only assume he is in cahoots with the Clintons to tank the election for the Republicans.

 

[whywesteppin]

Thanks.

Obamacare is a disaster and has caused costs to skyrocket for businesses and individuals, not decrease by $2500 like he claimed. We need a free market system and the ability to buy across state lines, not a top down system that limits choices.

The bosses that cut pay and lay people off have been affected by increased health care costs, increased materials costs from a weak dollar and Fed money printing, increased regulation and taxes, etc. We need less of that, not more. Unleash business, don't overburden them.

I don't believe unions are the answer. By threatening to stop work if companies don’t pay employees more, unions force companies to layoff some workers. That hurts some union workers. Unions also protect seniority, not the most productive workers. When layoffs occur, it is the most recently hired workers who are laid off first.

Recently, there have been cases of teachers’ unions holding lotteries to see who gets laid off. When was the last time you saw a private company make hiring/firing decisions that way?

Keep your head up my dude. Things will turnaround.

i hope they do.

i was always disappointed that obamacare didn't address the core problems with health care in this country. i still think it was a step forward but many more reforms are needed.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Marco Rubio isn't a moderate. He's far to the right, but was backed by the "GOP elite". 

 

[rico x hood]

He most certainly is a moderate. He got elected during the Tea Party wave but he immediately moved to the center after. That's why Ted Cruz was able to run to the right of him.

 

[utvol23]

What Rusty and Whywesteppin said!

If it were anyone but Trump today would have been a Really big blow to Hillary even without an indictment for anyone who actually follows politics and doesnt just look at the headlines. Trump is just so despised by so many people that it doesnt matter what Hillary did as long as its not Trump. Kind of like people on the other side who dont care what Trump does as long as its not Hillary.

Question for those that are Hillary supporters. Do the results of the FBI results give you pause in voting for her? What would you do if she werent running against Trump? Seems like a lot of people feel this means she did no wrong which imo is clearly not the case.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

We need a free market system and the ability to buy across state lines, not a top down system that limits choices.

Buying across state lines is something that sounds like common sense but doesn't make sense if you think about it for bit.

America is big on this thing called states rights, because of it health insurance regulations vary wildly from state to state.


In order to buy across state lines you would be severely limiting choice in a different way....either


a) no fedral regulations means All the insurance companies move to state with laxest insurance laws, and they would create plans that comply with that states laws.

or

b) The federal government would have to put in national health care regulations...essentially the creation of a new bureaucracy and top down controll.




Selling across state lines doesn't sovle anything.

 

[RustyShackleford]

What Rusty and Whywesteppin said!

If it were anyone but Trump today would have been a Really big blow to Hillary even without an indictment for anyone who actually follows politics and doesnt just look at the headlines. Trump is just so despised by so many people that it doesnt matter what Hillary did as long as its not Trump. Kind of like people on the other side who dont care what Trump does as long as its not Hillary.

Question for those that are Hillary supporters. Do the results of the FBI results give you pause in voting for her? What would you do if she werent running against Trump? Seems like a lot of people feel this means she did no wrong which imo is clearly not the case.

Not to excuse her many short comings, but I would vote for her over any of the GOP candidates because she actually has a social justice platform, her economics are most sound, and her as president means America finally gets a progressive supreme court.

If it were a choice between her and Bernie Sanders for president, and I had the deciding vote, I would vote for Bernie.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Also it's impossible to have a free market health care system, that will be affordable and cover people with pre existing conditions.

If it's free market by necessity you will either have to be extremely rich to afford health insurance or extremely healthy.




One more point as a non american outsider.

I find it COMPLETELY INSANE to see how conservatives have distanced themselves from Obamacare when it is so obviously filled with so many conservative policy wonk ideas.




It's proof that partisan ship have made Americans completely insane.

Obama slapped his name on some Conservative policy ideas, added in a some left wing seasoning (public option), the left wing parts were gutted and Republicans STILL HATE IT.



Y'all are doomed. flat out doomed, your system is broken and prone to instability and gridlock.


Parliamentary goverments> Presidential goverments

 

[RIP sleazyy]

We're not all insane yet. It's just the sane ones can't get anything done cuz the crazies on both sides are in the way.

Basically just riding it out now hoping for the best

George Washington tried to warn us.

 

[RustyShackleford]

-The public option is a good middle of the road compromise. You get you're private insurance, and the public option serves as a competitive fringe to keep prices down.

And that together with allowing private insurers to negotiate rates along with government, and you would get real downward on prices (or at least much less inflation)

Then you can look at some of the issues libertarians bring up regarding information problems, and double marginalization.

-The healthcare system was even more ****** before the ACA. In 10 years not one Republican has been able to put forward a plan that gets America to universal coverage, let alone affordable universal coverage.

It is time for the left in America to champion a single payer system as the solution, and the right to champion a public option and breaking the monopolies large companies have over markets.

The right would win this debate, and score political points. Trying to injury the ACA for political gain has gotten them no where.

 

[Nike Jordan]

He most certainly is a moderate. He got elected during the Tea Party wave but he immediately moved to the center after. That's why Ted Cruz was able to run to the right of him.

Compared to Ted Cruz, everyone looks like a "moderate". 

 

[RustyShackleford]

Marco Rubio is not a moderate

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Marco_Rubio.htm

 

[RustyShackleford]

We're not all insane yet. It's just the sane ones can't get anything done cuz the crazies on both sides are in the way.

Basically just riding it out now hoping for the best

George Washington tried to warn us.

Brah there is no extreme left in America.

Bernie Sanders and a handful of people might be firmly left but even those folks will accept center left compromises.

I can name a ton of stuff that the GOP can do, that don't break their conservative principles, and help the country.

A job bills instead of job program, tax cuts only for the lower classes, closing tax loopholes for big businesses, criminal justice reform, immigration reform, supporting gay people be added to Civil Rights Act.

Progressives do have a point. All the smart policy proposals that should be coming from the center right now come from the center left. Mainly because Tea Party types have them scared ********.

Barry Goldwater's racist *** is the one that really warned us.

Until people like Kaisch (being the far right of the party), Brian Sandoval, Mike Bloomberg, and Larry Hogan (last two being the far left of the party) start being the faces of the GOP, nothing is gonna improve.

 

[ninjahood]

He most certainly is a moderate. He got elected during the Tea Party wave but he immediately moved to the center after. That's why Ted Cruz was able to run to the right of him.

bingo... immigration reform tilted his whole campaign trajectory towards da middle.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Lets bask in the absurdity for a minute.


We have a problem: Health Care is expensive, and covers too few people.

Idea #1 - From Conservative think tanks.

- We set up in state marketplaces to drive competition and keep costs down.
- add in some tax credits for low income/ middle class.
- use a individual mandate to incentivise insurance companies to cover more people
- expand medicade to cover very poorest.


Idea #2 - From far left wing/ every other developed nation on the planet.

- single payer health care system where government is the insurance provider.
- creation of new giant bureaucracy.
- abolish private insurance


Idea #3 - the republican idea.

Do nothing.



The Democratic President elected with control of both house and senate chose the conservative idea.

The Republican Party when faced with a Democratic president who was willing to indulge the Market worshiping wet dreams of the conservative intelligentsia the Republicans CHOSE to do nothing, worse they chose obstructionism.



Doomed I tell you.

 

[rico x hood]

Marco Rubio is not a moderate

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Marco_Rubio.htm

You're a European styled Socialist. Any Republican probably seems like an extremist to you because your baseline is WAY off.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Marco Rubio is not a moderate

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Marco_Rubio.htm

You're a European styled Socialist. Any Republican probably seems like an extremist to you because your baseline is WAY off.

I have not taken any shots at you, please refrain from taking at me. Especially when you report me when I come at you the slightest bit sideways.

You're trying to bait me so you can hit the report button, I'm not biting, go troll someone else

 

[rico x hood]

I have NEVER reported anyone on this board, ever.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Rubio isn't a "moderate" because of one issue.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Lets bask in the absurdity for a minute.


We have a problem: Health Care is expensive, and covers too few people.

Idea #1 - From Conservative think tanks.

- We set up in state marketplaces to drive competition and keep costs down.
- add in some tax credits for low income/ middle class.
- use a individual mandate to incentivise insurance companies to cover more people
- expand medicade to cover very poorest.


Idea #2 - From far left wing/ every other developed nation on the planet.

- single payer health care system where government is the insurance provider.
- creation of new giant bureaucracy.
- abolish private insurance


Idea #3 - the republican idea.

Do nothing.



The Democratic President elected with control of both house and senate chose the conservative idea.

The Republican Party when faced with a Democratic president who was willing to indulge the Market worshiping wet dreams of the conservative intelligentsia the Republicans CHOSE to do nothing, worse they chose obstructionism.



Doomed I tell you.

The GOP did have a suggestion during the ACA debate. Tort reform

But all it took was for the insurance companies to buy off one moderate Dem. And Joe Lieberman's lame *** pretty much comes with a price tag attached

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Marco Rubio is a gutless, feckless, intellectual waif.


He has no real beliefs of his own, and is in favor of whatever he needs to be in favour of to become president.

The Republican party has become extremely conservative so Rubio is extremely conservative,


arguing about Rubio's true convictions is a waste of time because Marco Rubio doesn't have any.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I have NEVER reported anyone on this board, ever.

My deleted post and warnings make me believe otherwise.

So take you baiting somewhere else

 

[RIP sleazyy]

We're not all insane yet. It's just the sane ones can't get anything done cuz the crazies on both sides are in the way.

Basically just riding it out now hoping for the best

George Washington tried to warn us.

Brah there is no extreme left in America.

Bernie Sanders and a handful of people might be firmly left but even those folks will accept center left compromises.

I can name a ton of stuff that the GOP can do, that don't break their conservative principles, and help the country.

A job bills instead of job program, tax cuts only for the lower classes, closing tax loopholes for big businesses, criminal justice reform, immigration reform, supporting gay people be added to Civil Rights Act.

Progressives do have a point. All the smart policy proposals that should be coming from the center right now come from the center left. Mainly because Tea Party types have them scared ********.

Barry Goldwater's racist *** is the one that really warned us.

Until people like Kaisch (being the far right of the party), Brian Sandoval, Mike Bloomberg, and Larry Hogan (last two being the far left of the party) start being the faces of the GOP, nothing is gonna improve.

There's definitely extreme left people in America, they just are not as prevalent or dangerous or extreme as years before. I also think societal changes have altered the left and right dynamic.

I'm glad you can see that the other side has good ideas and you're clearly not one of the super left people I'm talking about.

Barry's racist *** was hip, but the George Washington thing - I meant his view on political parties in general.

Party lines and loyalty were drawn to the point of personal bitterness and public destructiveness. Such division along party lines represented the most severe split between the two political factions since the inception of the republic. It made a deep impact upon Washington and the memory must have been in his mind as he wrote about the very real capacity of political parties to destroy the fragile unity holding the nation together.

It is not that Washington failed to understand the contribution of parties, but he was greatly concerned that they had previously, and would again, grow seeking more power than other groups to the detriment of the whole.

Washington was aware that other governments viewed political parties as destructive because of the temptation to manifest and retain power, but also because they would often seek to extract revenge on political opponents.

He viewed this to be detrimental to the young country as an entire nation.

He also saw the dangers in sectionalism (North vs. South) and warned that political factions gaining enough power could seek to obstruct the execution of the laws that were created by Congress and could prevent the three branches from properly performing their duties as outlined in the Constitution.

President Washington expresses genuine concern in that “the alternate domination” of one political party over another, thereby allowing one party to enjoy temporary power over the government that would use it to obtain revenge on the other.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection.

George Washington saw with his own eyes in real time the beginnings of what would put us in the position we are in now. This is why I say he tried to warn us.