***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[kdawg]

 

[rolaholic]

Yea this was malfeasance of the highest order

Now the GOP are gonna get a taste of the same thing as 45's cognition further erodes in office

 

[gry60]

You'd think escaping the promise of the Trump flood was more urgent than the usual purity tests.

Progressives are not exempt from being blamed for what they prioritized the most (Kamala's signaling over the necessity of keeping the ghouls from power).

More than anyone on this side of the political spectrum, Progressives need to practice what they preach (working for the greater good). Y'all don't think Liz Cheney torpedoed her political career by appearing at the DNC?

They can't keep letting Perfect be the enemy of Good.

 

[mplsdunk]

"this guy sucks" everything swings right

"this guy sucks too" everything goes back left

I can already see it.

 

[rolaholic]

You'd think escaping the promise of the Trump flood was more urgent than the usual purity tests.

Progressives are not exempt from being blamed for what they prioritized the most (Kamala's signaling over the necessity of keeping the ghouls from power).

More than anyone on this side of the political spectrum, Progressives need to practice what they preach (working for the greater good). Y'all don't think Liz Cheney torpedoed her political career by appearing at the DNC?

They can't keep letting Perfect be the enemy of Good.

Liz's career was already long dead in the water before she got dusted off to campaign , MAGA hated her and she got trounced in her last election. Her renewed relevance came from the most unexpected source I'm sure for her.

There's a difference between demanding perfection and demanding consistency though. Don't think the preferred default of abandoning prior principles/positions out of pragmatism has the intended impact in the end.

The folks that you're overcompromising for will never get over the D next to the name point blank. Even the objectively good policies for them that do get passed are never given credit for unless they don't know it came from Dems . All it really does is signal to segments of your base that they could be potential sacrificial lambs down the road out of political expediency.

Just look at the hand wringing now over 'wokeism' and IDpol on the left that quite literally was hardly a feature of this campaign at all being the reason for the loss. In fact they actively shied away from that stuff, it was the other campaign leaning into it and trying to make it a campaign topic.

Think throwing the lions share of the blame on the base failing us instead of those literally charged to win over people and their votes misses the mark and doesn't do anything about the very urgent task of winning back those votes that were there the last time but were lost or withheld for a multitude of reasons this time around.

It's a double standard for sure that the GOP don't have to abide by thanks to their deep rooted party line disciplne, given the difference in the makeup of their base, but they also never lay blame at their base even after the most catastrophic elections for them because they know that's not gonna help them at all.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

 

[sfc415]

the anti-immigrant, anti-minority rhetoric this week has been crazy. I haven’t searched a single thing about them, and I keep seeing “About to call ICE on my Latino neighbors” type of @$&$ all over forums.

The majority of minorities are not Trump supporters, especially in blue states. Since colonial times, there have always been self-hating, self-serving, boot-licking “yes boss” types in every ethnic group. It’s nowhere near a new thing at all. They’ve just been emboldened to voice their views more these days.

If I lived online 24/7, you’d think that black people, Mexicans , Vietnamese, etc. are die hard Trump supporters nationwide. Never mind the fact that this is clearly not the case in the cities where most of them actually live. How many Trump supporting minorities do you see in the Bay and LA percentage wise? Come on…

From personal experience, the truth is many of them actually don’t vote at all because they’ve never felt like their voices or issues matter. On top of that, millions are here on visas, green cards, or are undocumented and can’t vote even if they wanted to. That’s a completely different issue than saying they worship Trump as a whole.

I can’t speak for all minority groups, but most Asians are here with the “I’ll just shut up, make money, take care of my family.” My 62 year old mom is a US citizen and STILL thinks of herself as an outsider to this country after 40 years of living here, and I’m sure most Asians here can relate to their parents telling them “you’re born here but you’ll never be American.” Can you blame them for thinking that though?

Also, educated/well behaved Asians HATE low class people like Trump and left their countries to get away from people like him running things.

 

[gry60]

they also never lay blame at their base even after the most catastrophic elections for them because they know that's not gonna help them at all.

They don't lay blame at the base because the base turns out no matter what.

The GOP base turns out all the time because they don't complain about small victories. Ours does. That's the issue! Our base refuses to play the long game, when it's the long game that gets permanent victories. How many of them know about all the progressive economic wins the Biden administration generated? Instead, they ran with "Genocide Joe."

Until they acknowledge their role in the Dem party having low confidence in the Dem base turnout, and until our own people understand that, small or big, a win is a win is a win that we must build on, progressives can't expect the Democratic leadership to trust them.

The folks that you're overcompromising for will never get over the D next to the name point blank.

That's not the point.

Appeal to disaffected GOP politicians during the elections is to erode the margins of the GOP. Republicans did the same thing with former Democrat politicians and celebrities. It's not like the policy platform will change because of that temporary support. That's part of the electoral game!
If this is something that is going to trigger a faction of the Democratic base, we have lost before a single vote has been cast.

I get that a lot of potential Democrat voters were angry about a lot of things done by the party, but this election was an opportunity for younger Democrats to take power from the Biden generation and assert itself and its values. We failed because too many of us do not understand that we have to embrace incremental victories. You can't change **** from the outside.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

the missing context;

the problem Harris was trying to solve for was the fact that Joe Biden had THE MOST PROGRESSIVE ADMINISTRATION OF ALL TIME.

and it was heidiously unpopular.



the left is really going with the "stabbed in the back narrative" its so nasty.

Harris mostly moderating on tone and language and optics.
she didn't make any substantives shifts to the right on anything.

 

[atlsfinest]

"this guy sucks" everything swings right

"this guy sucks too" everything goes back left

I can already see it.

(I might have already posted this here so forgive me)

I remember a time when Obama won his second term that people thought Democrats had a permanent advantage in presidential races because they thought the blue wall (Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and at the time, Ohio) was impenetrable and then Trump came in 2016.

My dad told me in the late '80s the common thought was that Republicans would dominate for generations because Republicans had three consecutive blowout presidential elections (Reagan in 80&84 and Bush in 41). Then Bill Clinton came around in '92 and destroyed Bush.

No matter how bleak things look things are likely to change

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I think both the left and the center have to face some serious questions about their theory of the electorate.


The center thought that moderating on tone and optics, doing speeches with republicans like Liz Cheney, and appeals to abortion rights would help win enough center right people and nikki haley voters to stave off non college educated losses.

this is clearly wrong.


The left thought that substantive progressive policy achievements and pro labor and pro union policy and rhetoric would help win working class voters back.

this is clearly wrong.



What is the solution then?
don't tell me it's more speeches with republicans and don't tell me its move left wing government programs because those seem to be losers.

 

[aepps20]

They don't lay blame at the base because the base turns out no matter what.

The GOP base turns out all the time because they don't complain about small victories. Ours does. That's the issue! Our base refuses to play the long game, when it's the long game that gets permanent victories. How many of them know about all the progressive economic wins the Biden administration generated? Instead, they ran with "Genocide Joe."

Until they acknowledge their role in the Dem party having low confidence in the Dem base turnout, and until our own people understand that, small or big, a win is a win is a win that we must build on, progressives can't expect the Democratic leadership to trust them.


That's not the point.

Appeal to disaffected GOP politicians during the elections is to erode the margins of the GOP. Republicans did the same thing with former Democrat politicians and celebrities. It's not like the policy platform will change because of that temporary support. That's part of the electoral game!
If this is something that is going to trigger a faction of the Democratic base, we have lost before a single vote has been cast.

I get that a lot of potential Democrat voters were angry about a lot of things done by the party, but this election was an opportunity for younger Democrats to take power from the Biden generation and assert itself and its values. We failed because too many of us do not understand that we have to embrace incremental victories. You can't change **** from the outside.

They battled against Roe for years and never once lost heart that they wouldn’t succeed. Republican voters are more committed than we are. That’s a fact. Most of the people that attend my White Evangelical church aren’t wealthy but when you ask them how Trump’s economic policies will hurt them worse of all they say, “He got us the Court so we will survive”.

 

[Betonblck]

the missing context;

the problem Harris was trying to solve for was the fact that Joe Biden had THE MOST PROGRESSIVE ADMINISTRATION OF ALL TIME.

and it was heidiously unpopular.



the left is really going with the "stabbed in the back narrative" its so nasty.

Harris mostly moderating on tone and language and optics.
she didn't make any substantives shifts to the right on anything.

Thank you! Biden's Administration was everything we thought Obama's administration would be. It was so progressive that the only thing the progressive side of the party complained about was Palestine. That side of the party is never happy no matter what. They criticized Obama for not doing enough for Black people. If it wasn't Palestine, it would be something else.

 

[dwalk31]

What is the solution then?
don't tell me it's more speeches with republicans and don't tell me its move left wing government programs because those seem to be losers.

It’s toning down the fear-mongering and working to get their supporters to tone down the “you’re a bigot” rhetoric online.

A campaign of empathy and compassion towards MAGA types will go further than gotcha Don Lemon videos and chilling opposing views on certain online forums.

 

[atlsfinest]

Yea this was malfeasance of the highest order

Now the GOP are gonna get a taste of the same thing as 45's cognition further erodes in office

Yeah, the gloves are off now.

The PSA guys can't say too much because they were the people telling Joe to stay in the race a year ago then after the debate they became the biggest media critics of Joe, basically asking him to drop out of the race whenever they could.

Harris did exactly what she was supposed to do and she actually did well.

Let me explain my theory - in the summer of 2024 Democrats were looking at some bleak numbers. Biden was only ahead by 7% in New York State. Democrats had internal numbers that showed Trump winning in New Mexico, Virginia, and Minnesota.

The election that would have happened in July of ‘24 would have been a Reagan ‘84 level bloodbath that would have given the GOP 57 or 58 senators and a 50-60 seat majority in the House. It would have been an apocalypse that would have taken the Democrats 12+ years to really recover from.

Harris managed to take an apocalypse and turn it into just kind of a run of the mill disaster. Trump won all the swing states but he did’t flip Virginia or New Jersey or get close in NY. The GOP had a very good night in the senate but not a very great night. The Democrats can rebuild in a cycle or two.

Harris winning was probably never really in the cards - although I’m sure she and her people thought it would have been a nice bonus. But Harris did what she was supposed to do - keep the bottom from truly falling out.

 

[wavycrocket]

100% on point

 

[Lucky13s]

It’s toning down the fear-mongering and working to get their supporters to tone down the “you’re a bigot” rhetoric online.

A campaign of empathy and compassion towards MAGA types will go further than gotcha Don Lemon videos and chilling opposing views on certain online forums.

It’s always “how dare you call me a bigot,” never “hmm, everyone keeps calling me a bigot, maybe I should chill with the bigotry.”

 

[mplsdunk]

Well… calling over half the voters nazi and racists clearly didn’t help democrats.

Like we’ve said, the scolding and shaming and moral police is a losing strategy.

 

[NickFolarin]

It’s toning down the fear-mongering and working to get their supporters to tone down the “you’re a bigot” rhetoric online.

A campaign of empathy and compassion towards MAGA types will go further than gotcha Don Lemon videos and chilling opposing views on certain online forums.

Fear mongering and calling people 'snowflakes" are the basis of MAGA

 

[NickFolarin]

Well… calling over half the voters nazi and racists clearly didn’t help democrats.

Like we’ve said, the scolding and shaming and moral police is a losing strategy.

You're right, there is no moral policing the moralless

 

[mplsdunk]

Watch dems run joe Biden again in 2028.

 

[Lucky13s]

Well… calling over half the voters nazi and racists clearly didn’t help democrats.

Like we’ve said, the scolding and shaming and moral police is a losing strategy.

It wasn’t a losing strategy in 2020 or 2022, but magically it’s a losing strategy now? Nah. It was inflation, period. More specifically, it was an uneducated electorate that doesn’t understand what caused WORLDWIDE inflation, and instead of praising Biden/Harris for handling it better than most other countries, blamed them and voted for the billionaire who wants to give rich people tax cuts and enact inflationary tariffs.

But sure, it was because racists had their fee fees hurt. It’s not like we haven’t tried being the “nice” party for at least the last 40 years. It’s not like we didn’t have the whole “when they go low, we go high” mantra that also led to a loss. Sure. Watch how magically in 4 years this won’t be a talking point. It’s the economy. It’s always the economy. That’s all our country cares about, money. You of all people should know that.

 

[dwalk31]

The refusal to even consider shifting approach after the Dems lose the presidency, senate, and house is really astounding. But go off.

 

[Nike Jordan]

AOC is the model for how progressives should operate.

Have your differences with the Democratic Party, but learn how to play ball with them.

 

[mplsdunk]

Inflation wasn’t helping and neither was branding “bidenomics” but to think the same strategy is going to work again is insane.

Dems need a whole re brand, blame the voters all you want but that entitlement isn’t going to help win.

I know all the country cares about is money, how do you propose the dems convince people they’ll make more under them? They talked about it a lot and people still voted for the stupid tariff guy.