- Jul 22, 2007
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There are a lot more fighters that do Shotokan and would not have said anything. And regardless if he said he didn't want it, the UFC/commision would notlet Shogun be champ.
Official MMA Thread-UFC on FOX 3, 5/5/12 - Anyone asking for stream links = banned.
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by monopolyman630,
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- Sep 27, 2004
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I believe Shogun won the fight, but here are two interesting takes on the whole matter.. One from one of the judges himself..
SOURCE: http://www.411mania.com/M...chida-Won-At-UFC-104.htm
SOURCE: http://www.411mania.com/M...chida-Won-At-UFC-104.htm
Cecil Peoples Explains Why Lyoto Machida Won At UFC 104
Posted by Larry Csonka on 10.27.2009
See what Cecil has to say…
Cage Report caught up with MMA judge Cecil Peoples and asked him for his reasoning behind his issued score of 48-47 in favor of the champion, Lyoto Machida at UFC 104. Here is what Cecil had to say…
"First of all what you need to understand is that from where the judges are sitting, we get to see things that the fans at home may miss. Mauricio Rua was being aggressive but it wasn't effective aggressiveness which is what we as the judges look for when scoring a fight. The way I saw it, Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight - if you take a look at the judging criteria clean strikes are valued more-so than the quantity of strikes landed. Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyoto's diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favor the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that.
When both fighters are engaged in a striking match what I always look for is the fighter who is being judicious, picking his spots, being accurate and landing the cleaner strikes which ultimately is what Lyoto did more effectively than Rua. Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control. I recognize the fact that Rua did have a few takedown attempts during the course of the fight however Lyoto defended them all successfully which counts as effective grappling in his favor, where as unsuccessful takedown attempts are not scored at all. Therefore going by that criteria, I believe Lyoto won the fight clearly. I'm just glad the other judges on the panel saw it the same way and I'm sure the fans who understand the technicalities of the sport agree with the decision too."
SOURCE: http://www.headkicklegend...oxing-look-at-machida-vs
[h2]A Kickboxing Look at Machida vs. Shogun[/h2]
by .W. on Oct 25, 2009 6:01 PM EDT in MMA
10 comments
Lyoto Machida and Mauricio Shogun Rua squared off in one of MMA's most technical kickboxing battles.
View full size photo uploaded October 25, 2009
Sure, our main goal here is to discuss kickboxing and dash in a little Japanese MMA, but when something big happens, it is hard to ignore. Last night's UFC 104 main event made some waves and upset a lot of fans and insiders alike. The consensus is that Lyoto Machida did not successfully defend his title against Mauricio Shogun Rua. Instead, it was believed to be bad judging.
Rewatching the fight, it is easy to realize that this fight bares little resemblance to a Mixed Martial Arts battle outside of Shogun attempting a few takedowns; this was a kickboxing fight. I think a lot of MMA fans are used to scoring and watching fights in a different fashion, but when you adjust the way you look at the fight, a few things become more clear. When you take out who was "stalking" who and who was clinching who, the fight becomes a lot more simple to score.
Round one was Lyoto Machida's round. He opens with a thai clinch and a flurry of knees. Shogun throughout most of the round, if not the fight was stalling against the cage. In round one he threw a few knees to the hamstrings of Lyoto, but the damage those did really didn't come into the equation until the late rounds of the fight. Nearly every strike Rua threw completely missed the mark or was blocked. I see a lot of people quoting FightMetric to defend their stance, and all I can say is I'm not sure what fight they were watching and that FightMetric, while the output is somewhat scientific, is still validated and entered by humans, so there is a margin of error.
No doubt in these early rounds Shogun was pushing forward, but his strikes simply weren't landing other than when he clinched against the cage. Machida would wait, counterattack and score points. The cleanest shot in the second round was Machida's kick to the midsection about halfway through if you watch it carefully. Shogun once again scored all of his shots clinching against the cage with some close range knee strikes. Even Shogun's flying kick was partially blocked and countered by a right hand by Machida, that puts Lyoto up two rounds. Machida starts the third round off by scoring points again, nullifying Shogun's strikes. The only clean strikes are a few that Machida slips in. Round three was more of the same, with Shogun scoring a bit more, but Machida having a flurry near the end with Shogun scoring twice, Machida quite a few more times.
This leaves the fight 3 - 0 for Machida. Going into Round four, Lyoto is tired and the clinch knees to the legs have slowed him down considerably. Rounds four and five play out the same way, but with Lyoto being tired from the leg strikes and Shogun scoring the points. This leaves the final score at 3 - 2. If this were a fight in K-1, I could easily see the judges sending this into an Extension round.
While I understand this was a MMA fight, and clinching is a legitimate method of fighting, as a kickboxing match this fight is easily Lyoto Machida's. As a MMA fight I'm inclined to see it the same way, although you could score the first round as a draw round and the fight in general as a draw. I see no real controversy, just differences in opinions.
- Jul 22, 2007
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But leg kicks can finish a fight (and help aid in ending a fight) and it wasn't a kickboxing match, it was an MMA match. Can't do anything about itthough.
- Nov 25, 2007
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First screen shot of EA MMA
- Aug 25, 2005
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Originally Posted by His diabolical Majesty
First screen shot of EA MMA
RIDICULOUS.
- Nov 10, 2002
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EA MMA = 2K's All-Pro Football 2008, one and done. $10 on sales rack in a few month once it's released
- Jan 3, 2004
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Good stuff, DWAI.
99% of people watching dont know the criteria in which these fights are scored to the letter.
Did it look like Rua won the fight to the viewers? Hell yes. But looks as if when you break it down and take the minor details into account it may not be asclear as everyone thinks.
99% of people watching dont know the criteria in which these fights are scored to the letter.
Did it look like Rua won the fight to the viewers? Hell yes. But looks as if when you break it down and take the minor details into account it may not be asclear as everyone thinks.
- Aug 16, 2006
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im not talking about other fighters whether they practice shotokan, kyokushin, wing chun, kung fu or watever style of martial arts.
im talking specifically about lyoto machida because hes always preaching about the way of the samurai. he's very serious about it, and i actually thoughthe was the real deal in this matter.
apparently not after seeing him talk post-fight.
its cool to see himself be all samurai this samurai that. if he wants to do all that, then he has to follow the Bushido. i would actually respect that morethan him winning fights. some of the virtues of bushido are honor and honesty, which he clearly fails to do.
to me, martial arts is more than just fighting, winning fights, and being the champion.
but i guess i just have an idealistic views on this whole matter
machida doesnt have to give away his belt to shogun or anything like that. he could have simply said that shogun won. thats it. rematch time.
most fighters would accept the win, still have their undeafeated * record, keep their win purse, and retain the championship belt. i was just hoping machidawould be different from everyone else.
- Nov 25, 2007
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I seriously doubt this. UFC undisputed is still going for full price at most places unless used. This should be a better game.
- Aug 16, 2006
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wow Cecil Peoples even looks more of an idiot than he already is. old guy is senile and delusional.
he shoulda just kept his mouth shut. now we have to read about the crap he just spewed.
he shoulda just kept his mouth shut. now we have to read about the crap he just spewed.
Lyoto was landing the more cleaner and damaging strikes throughout the fight
really? r u serious?oh yeah lyoto strikes were so muchmore damaging than shogun's.
thats why shogun was still runningaround, dancing and weaving, bobbing his head in the later rounds while machida could barely stand, limping all over the octagon, and breathing heavily.
Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyoto's diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favor the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that.
look at machida and shogun after the fight. who do you think got hurt more? shogun got marked up around his left eye. machida got busted up allover his face, got his ribs all bruised up, and his legs pulverized. clearly shogun did more damage and outstruck machida. go tell brandon vera and crocop thatleg kicks dont finish fights.
Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control.
this one's the bestshogun literally stalked machidaand cut off space where machida couldnt escape. yeah sure machida let him do that. everytime machida gave openings, shogun was right there to takeadvantage.
- Aug 25, 2005
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really? r u serious?
Although Rua threw a lot of low kicks they were not as damaging as Lyoto's diverse attack in the earlier rounds which is why I scored the first three rounds for Machida. You have to keep in mind we always the favor the fighter who is trying to finish the fight, and leg kicks certainly don't do that.
look at machida and shogun after the fight. who do you think got hurt more? shogun got marked up around his left eye. machida got busted up all over his face, got his ribs all bruised up, and his legs pulverized. clearly shogun did more damage and outstruck machida. go tell brandon vera and crocop that leg kicks dont finish fights.
Lyoto made Shogun come after him, he determined where the fight took place which in my opinion constitutes as effective Octagon control.
this one's the bestshogun literally stalked machida and cut off space where machida couldnt escape. yeah sure machida let him do that. everytime machida gave openings, shogun was right there to take advantage.
hahahaha damn I was gonna come in and comment on this idiot Cecil Peoples, but Battousai pretty much said what I was going to write. The last one inparticular is the most laughable.
Lyoto MADE Shogun stalk him, and that counts as octogon control? EFF OUTTA HERE. By that argument, Kalib Starnes actually won against Nate Quarry when theyfought. Kalib was merely executing his gameplan (running away like a lil biatch) and forcing Quarry to fight Kalib's fight.
Seriously... when is Cecil Peoples going to have his license stripped from every state commission. This is just getting ridiculous.
bastitch
Staff member
- Jan 10, 2000
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quik1987
Banned
- Apr 21, 2001
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You can't blame one judge for a unanimous decision. I'm just saying.
- Nov 10, 2002
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EA MMA better than UFC Undisputed?
- Nov 25, 2007
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^ should be. Graphic wise it already is. EA always has great online play and customizations which undisputed did not. Undisputed was so promising but theamount of bugs and the fact that THQ took so long for an update it killed it for me and plenty of other people.
- Jan 3, 2004
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Originally Posted by Bastitch
What the hell?
- Sep 27, 2007
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Lyoto vs Rua - REMATCH - SUPPOSEDLY FOR 108
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/10/27/1103371/dave-meltzer-dana-white-wants
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/10/27/1103371/dave-meltzer-dana-white-wants
- Nov 25, 2007
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Nagh, Cecil is just the Cecil of Refs as well as judgingOriginally Posted by Mojodmonky1
Originally Posted by Bastitch
I allowed myself to sleep on it, think about it some, watch it again, and think about it even more.
Machida lost. Period.
Every single person watching it at my house had Shogun winning. My wife was screaming for Machida the entire match, but even by the 5th round even she knew he lost.
I'm getting mad just thinking about it again.
The funny thing is, right after the decision I thought to myself "Was Cecil Peoples judging?"
He was.
hahahahaha ive said it before and ill say it again. Cecil Peoples is the WORST MMA judge out there. He is the Dan Mirgliotta of judging. Every commission in the US should strip this guy of his license.
- Apr 2, 2004
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e.g.
Forrest vs. Rampage.
If you watch that fight and compared it to LM vs SR match last Saturday, no doubt Shogun inflicted more pain, strikes, was more aggressive and octagon control.
I HAVE A STRANGE feeling the most that the commission can do is declare it a DRAW or NO CONTEST...but I'm anticipating no action at all.
let's fastforward to 1/2/10 now
- Apr 2, 2004
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- Heavyweight Championship bout:
Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Shane Carwin [sup][2][/sup] - Light Heavyweight Championship bout:
Lyoto Machida (c) vs. Mauricio Rua [sup][3][/sup] - Middleweight Championship bout: Anderson Silva (c) vs. Vitor Belfort [sup][4][/sup]
- Light Heavyweight bout: Rashad Evans vs. Thiago Silva[sup][5][/sup]
- Heavyweight bout: Gabriel Gonzaga vs. Junior dos Santos[sup][6][/sup]
- Lightweight bout: Jim Miller vs. Tyson Griffin[sup][7][/sup]
- Welterweight bout: Carlos Condit vs.
Paul Daley[sup][8][/sup] - Welterweight bout:
Martin Kampmann vs. Rory Markham[sup][9][/sup] - Lightweight bout: Joe Lauzon vs.
Sam Stout[sup][1![0]](/styles/default/xenforo/NTemojis/alien.gif "Alien 0]")
[/sup] - Middleweight bout: Mark Munoz vs. Ryan Jensen[sup][11][/sup]
- Lightweight bout: Cole Miller vs. Dan Lauzon[sup][12][/sup]
- Welterweight bout: Jake Ellenberger vs. Mike Pyle[sup][13][/sup]
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 2010
PS
Kampmann fighting Markham
- Nov 25, 2007
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That's a hell of a card if it stays like that.
- Jan 21, 2007
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That card would be absolutely epic.
club29
Banned
- Sep 25, 2008
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Originally Posted by His diabolical Majesty
First screen shot of EA MMA
whoa...
- Nov 25, 2007
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weird I went to check out UFC's youtube page and all their vids are gone..
http://www.youtube.com/user/ufc?blend=1&ob=4
http://www.youtube.com/user/ufc?blend=1&ob=4
- Jul 16, 2002
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Originally Posted by damnTHOSEjs
- Heavyweight Championship bout:
- Light Heavyweight Championship bout:
- Middleweight Championship bout:
- Light Heavyweight bout:
- Heavyweight bout:
- Lightweight bout:
- Welterweight bout:
- Welterweight bout:
- Lightweight bout:
- Middleweight bout:
- Lightweight bout:
- Welterweight bout:
If this is true, I will actually order this on PPV.
