Originally Posted by
wawaweewa
Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1
^ how are they getting ahead of himself? He is the UFC HW Champion. Its not like he's an untested hype machine (a la Cain Velasquez... who very well may be the real thing but we will see). Again. HE IS THE CHAMP. Even if he doesn't adapt/evolve as a fighter, in his current state its hard to make the argument that he is overrated or would get smashed by other high level HW's.
It's actually ironic that you are riding the Carwin Warwagon pretty hard, yet you say that it is a logical fallacy that someone who is of the ripe old age of THIRTY TWO will imrove. CARWIN IS 34. Hell if Lesnar is old, Carwin needs to hang em up and get a job doing commercials with Wilford Brimley or C. Everett Coop hawking geriatric insurance or life alert.
Cmon man. Have we not learned anything from Couture or even to a lesser degree Hendo? Age is but a number to most of these guys as they eat, sleep, and breathe FIGHTING. These "old" dudes are in phenomenal shape and have an equally sharp mind to go along with it. You're right, there is no 100% Guarantee that Lesnar will continue to grow and get better, but if I were a betting man (I am) I would be the house that he does. That is about as safest a bet as you can get.
I don't care that Lesnar is the UFC HW champion.
All I care is that he's 1-1 against fellow HW contendors.
I don't think Carwin's great either. What the hell's a warwagon?
I think Carwin is a good match up for Lesnar. It should be an interesting fight.
Age is not "nothing but a number" in sports that require physical activity. It matters. For some it matters less than others because their styles may rely on less pure physicality but it matters nonetheless.
It seems that with many MMA fans it's either a fighter "sucks" or is "great". There are many fighters who neither such nor are vastly better than their competitors.
As of now Lesnar is a good HW fighter
Let him fight some real competition for an extended period of time first.
fwiw, I didn't think Mir would win the 2nd fight against Lesnar. I also think mir's a bit overrated so....
First off.
DAAAAAMN Demon....
I obviously am not as frustrated (yet) as Demon and some of the others are so I'll bite again and try to reply intelligently.
If you dont care or recognize that someone is a champ, what basis do you have for how good/bad a fighter is? MMA is one of the few sports where acompetitor's record is not indicative of his current skill level or ranking. Thats why people mock MMA Math. Using MMA Math, Dong Hyun Kim is an elitelevel fighter. WHY you ask? cause DHK > TJ Grant. TJ Grant > Ryo Chonan. Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva, therefore Dong Hyun Kim > Anderson Silva. Obviously that is a ludicrous statement.
Fighters today evolve so rapidly these days, not only do you have to look at their full body of work (entire career record) but you have to give extra weightto how they have been performing as of late. You say that all you care about is that Brock is 1-1 against fellow contenders. Obviously you are discountinghis fight against Herring yet including his first fight against Mir. The Brock that fought Mir the 1st time is a different fighter than the one that foughtMir last week. Make no mistake about it. After seeing the way he utterly dismantled Mir last week I dont know how you can make the argument that he is notthat good or doesn't have the skill set to get better. Look at how much he's already grown as a fighter since their first fight. Hell look at howmuch he's grown since the Herring fight. I felt that in the Herring fight, Brock somewhat relied on his pure bulk but did not necesarily exhibit highlevel skill and technique. In Lesnar/Mir 2, I thought Lesnar looked like a different fighter. His top game (to me) was VERY impressive. It looked like hewas a 1,000lb blanket raining down bowling ball sized fists that Mir (hell... probably most fighters) could not get out from under. A man of that size withhis agility and wrestling acumen can only get better the more he understands submission defense and the proper use of his weight and leverage to defend againstsweeps and or sub attempts from the bottom.
warwagon = stupid phrase to mean bandwagon x jim rome jungle-esque lingo (ie. WAR GSP, WAR the 1993 Chicago Bulls, and WAR J Stew getting love from aprostitute... I'm out! Rack em!... *nevermind)
I still stand by that age is not a number when you are in that peak physical shape. Hell I'm a 29 year old male that likes to stay fairly active byrunning around 10 miles a week, playing baseketball, and hitting the gym. I bet a 38 year old Dan Henderson can run faster, jump higher, lift more, andforearm shiver me into oblivion like he did Bisping. Why? Because Hendo is a professional athlete with a god given ability and talents, not to mention histraining regimen which keeps him in tip top shape. Furthermore, MMA is more than just "physical activity". Not only does it require athleticism(strength, speed, agility, etc...) but also requires TECHNIQUE, STRATEGY, and most of all MENTAL FORTITUDE. Couture is an EXCELLENT example of that. 35 yearold Randy was probably in better physical shape than 42 year old Randy, but it is hard to make the argument that 35 year old Randy is a better fighter than 42year old Randy was. He has said it before in past interviews, but Couture readily admits that a big part of this had to do with his mental state of mind(related to his prior marriage). There is more to being an elite level fighter than just being the biggest, strongest, fastest.
I disagree again that Lesnar as of now is a "good" fighter. Whether you recognize it or not, he is the defending champion of the premier MMAorganization in the world. There are (arguably) less than 10 people in the world who can do what he does at that level. If you are one of the 10 best in theworld at what you do be it fighting, spelling, tiddlywinks, whatever, that makes you GREAT at what you do.
You ask for Lesnar to fight some "real" competition over an "extended period of time"
Call me crazy but Mir, Herring, and Couture is real competition to me. As far as time goes... he has no control of that. He fights when they ask him to andwhoever they put up against him. This may sound like borderline blasphemy to some, but look at The Prodigy and the start to his career. Borderline comes outof nowhere and doesnt just beat recognized highly respectable dudes, he straight up murks em. Back in those days, Din Thomas and Caol Uno weren't justtomato can 155ers. These dudes were considered high level guys in that weight class and BJ came out like gangbusters and took them to school. He did not havetime or an extensive record to back him up, but people knew they were watching something special. Same goes for Brock. When you see this guy fight you knowhe is a special fighter and there is a chance (not saying its a lock, but atleast a chance) that he may go down as one of the most dominant HW fighters ever. Maybe I am biased cause I got to see Brock's first fight live and in person, but even against a can like Hong Man Choi, I left the Coliseum STUNNED likeWOW... this guy is going to be a monster once his technique develops. You could just tell.
