Offical 2009-10 NBA Season Thread

[proshares]

CP is right and another angel loses it's wings

Could have just posted the whole article, now I've gotta fight with my internet for the page to load.

 

[CP1708]

J 33, no worries man, I don't even consider the Magic like the Cavs.  I was more so pointing out the basis of what he was saying.  Allen is still a little sad about it so he brings it up all the time, see the Wizards thread. 

Like I have said, all teams have a clown.  Or two.  Fine.  But a roster full of idiots bumbling around?  No chance winning a title.  NONE. 

See Sac Kings, Clev Cavs, and whatever other team of jesters you can find. 

 

[downyboy]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

But Orlando hasn't changed their attitude from last year, and they beat Boston and Cleveland to get to the Finals. And when it came time for the Lakers, they didn't lose because of their relaxed attitude in warm-ups, they lost because LA was the better team.

Orlando wasn't as bad as Cleveland was, you never saw Dwight dancing mid-game on the sidelines and I can't recall seeing Gortat do the running man on the bench. All they ever really do is the little warmup dunk contest for a few minutes... then you have Dwight who just smiles at everything.

Simmons likes to overlook alot of things when writing...I can't stand dude.

 

[proshares]

Yea but the problem with both Orlando and Cleveland is that they built their teams this year to beat each other without any though of the Celtics.

I hate Bill Simmons more than all of you. I met that twerp at a book signing and had to resist the urge to hurt the man. But the man is really smart when it comes to writing his columns. Shows his homerism at times (but who doesn't) but comes through with a lot of knowledge.

 

[big j 33]

Yeah I hear you. The Magic weren't as bad as the Cavs but the difference in their attitude is night and day with the Celtics. You can see KG yelling at Big Baby from the bench, as Baby holds back the tears... but still, you can see the focus and intensity they all have.

Part of the blame can rest on Stan but it's not like he's ever coddling the team, in fact, Dwight told him he needs to be nicer

I mean who in that locker room is stepping up and criticizing Rashard or the bench or Jameer for getting beat like he stole something. At this point Orlando just has to win to avoid the sweep and embarrassment. Series isn't over but we have yet to see their full capabilities.

and now we have to wait until Saturday for the next game? Give me a break.

 

[duba169]

that's not fair to the magic at all.

 

[al3xis]

I thought the Cavs would lose due to basketball reasons not dancing. So what am I sad about?

Can we finally get a list of these clowns on the Cavs? Is Antwan Jamison a clown? Anthony Parker? Shaq? Z?

you could say Mo, Delonte and Andy.


Celtics have Sheed, Big Baby and Nate Robinson. Those are 3 certified clowns. is that slowing them down? No, because that team is proving to be better at basketball.


It's either a LeBron/top player issue or it's not. So, If it's due to the top dog on a team not putting on a game face and having a stone cold killer look all the time to set the tone then nobody should ever think Dwight and Orlando are winning anything..right?

 

[westcoastsfinest]

Originally Posted by CP1708

J 33, no worries man, I don't even consider the Magic like the Cavs. 
Like I have said, all teams have a clown.  Or two.  Fine.  But a roster full of idiots bumbling around?  No chance winning a title.  NONE. 

See Sac Kings, Clev Cavs, and whatever other team of jesters you can find. 

this

i also agree that orlando isnt a bunch of clowns...dwight does his thing before the games kinda like what shaq did but NEVER during a game and thats the problem with the cavs...Lebron the unquestioned captain of the cavs was also the maestro of all the antics and dancing etc...its like what kinda message are you setting as a leader of the team?
  

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by CP1708

>See Sac Kings, Clev Cavs, and whatever other team of jesters you can find. 

The Kings aint a bunch of jokesters.... just irrelevant.....

 

[bigmike23]

I agree with Allen

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

I thought the Cavs would lose due to basketball reasons not dancing. So what am I sad about?

Can we finally get a list of these clowns on the Cavs? Is Antwan Jamison a clown? Anthony Parker? Shaq? Z?

you could say Mo, Delonte and Andy.


Celtics have Sheed, Big Baby and Nate Robinson. Those are 3 certified clowns. is that slowing them down? No, because that team is proving to be better at basketball.


It's either a LeBron/top player issue or it's not. So, If it's due to the top dog on a team not putting on a game face and having a stone cold killer look all the time to set the tone then nobody should ever think Dwight and Orlando are winning anything..right?

The whole @#$%^& franchise was over on the bench posin for fake pictures, practicin handshakes, doin all kinds of stupid @#$%.  The hell you talkin about there's only 3 @#$%^& guys?  Get outta here with that @#$%^%$#.  That entire franchise is a bunch of clowns.  Add their fanbase too if you want. 

You can deny all you want, but next year (if Bron is still there) and they keep doing their lame dances/handshakes/pics or whatever else they come up with, and NOT WIN AGAIN, we'll do this all over again. 

Rck, I meant the old Kings.  Not the current model.  Those other dudes were all jokesters when they played, soon as it got real, they tightened up fast as hell.  Much to my delight.  No offense. 

 

[proshares]

Some really great points IMO brought up in the article:

last year's series, Orlando had distinct advantages at forward (Boston couldn't cover both Hedo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis without KG) and center (once Kendrick Perkins got into foul trouble, Boston had nobody to defend Howard); also, Rondo wasn't consistently great enough yet to turn "point guard" into a decided checkmark for Boston. Now? The forwards are a wash; Wallace gives Boston 12 fouls to use on Howard instead of six; and Rondo has evolved into one of the 10 best players in the league. Three battles swung completely. And that's before we get to Lewis retiring before the playoffs.
 

7:15: After Garnett's jumper puts Boston up by five, Vince Carter (12 points, 3-for-10 FG so far) explicably collapses while running down the floor. (I say explicably because it's always explicable when Vince Carter decides to fall down in a heap. It's not like anyone would ever say, "My God, what just happened! Vince Carter fell down!") I had 5:37 of the third quarter in ESPN.com's "When will Vince be writhing on the floor in pain?" office pool. Did I win? Dammit! David Thorpe was closer. He had 6:38. So close.

7:15: Vince continues to writhe in pain.

7:15: Still writhing.

7:15: Vince heroically stands up, then bends over trying to regroup. Who's getting a bigger kick out of this -- Raptors fans or Nets fans?

(Now here's where you say, "Wait a second, don't you root for Paul Pierce?" Here's my comeback: 2008 Finals MVP, came back three weeks after nearly getting stabbed to death, made a buzzer-beater in the same game in which he had his front two teeth knocked out. So there.)

  6:50: Jeff Van Gundy praises brother Stan for putting Howard back in the game with four fouls. I agree: Down five, nobody else scoring, season on the line ... gotta do it. And if he's not smart enough to tweak his game with four fouls, you don't deserve to win the title, anyway.
5:59: Down six, Vince heroically returns to the game (Mike Breen: "Sigh of relief from the Magic fans") while of course massaging his left wrist to remind everyone that, "Hey, if I suck for the rest of this game, just remember, I'm hurt." This is why he's Vince Carter.

(Note: This is why ESPN could never make me the third announcer of a three-man NBA booth, even though I'd be absolutely fantastic and a hero to Richard Deitsch, Richard Sandomir, Neil Best and even that lovable crank Phil Mushnick ... I just wouldn't be able to hold my tongue in spots like this. If Breen said, "Sigh of relief from the Magic fans," I'd HAVE to retort, "Sigh of relief? You really thought he was hurt, Breenie? He's Vince Carter! You can't possibly think he was really hurt!!!!! Have you not WATCHED Vince Carter????")

5:05: On consecutive possessions, Glen Davis stops Howard on a low-post move with no help, then takes a charge from Nelson. Celtics by eight. And by the way, no matter how this series plays out, we now know the blueprint for beating the 2009-10 Magic: defend Howard one-on-one (and use your fouls on him), stay home on the 3-point shooters, and dare their perimeter guys to beat people off the dribble.

4:50: KG fakes a jumper, then drives down the paint untouched for a dunk. (Kudos to Lewis for somehow avoiding a hard foul or a charge and doing the "Ole!" routine.) "And there's the difference right now," Van Gundy says. "Big Baby Davis puts his body in front, Garnett from 21 feet drives it, Magic get out of the way. No hard foul, no charge, and right now they're teetering on the brink." Exactly. Boston 70, Orlando 60.

4:06: Howard posts up, executes a nice spin move and gets fouled as Mark Jackson repeats his "You're not gonna beat the Celtics by posting up Dwight Howard" routine. Couldn't agree more. But if you're Orlando, what's Plan B? It's like Sean Grande said on my podcast last week: Cleveland and Orlando spent the past year building teams that could beat each other." They forgot about the 2008 champs. And frankly, so did I. Gotta love sports. You just never know.

3:15: Jameer Nelson sinks a three (Orlando's first field goal in six-plus minutes) to cut it to seven. Doc Rivers quickly calls a preemptive timeout before the crowd gets going. Smart. Once upon a time, the Doc that drove me crazy never stuck to a rotation and always called timeouts about three plays too late. Now? He sticks to a rotation and doesn't call timeouts three plays too late anymore. Maybe he finally passed the 10,000-hour Coaching Outlier point.

3:15: Jokes I would have made if I were writing this diary in real time: "Could somebody go to Google Maps and print out directions to the Eastern Conference finals for Rashard Lewis?"

2:36: Pierce beats Vince off the dribble, upfakes him and draws Vince's fourth foul. That's been a mismatch all night. I'd like to thank Stan Van Gundy for avoiding his best lineup for this particular series: Nelson, J.J. Redick (who does a nice job following Ray Allen through screens), Lewis (whose length would bother Pierce defensively), Gortat and Howard (for a little Twin Towers action). Those are Orlando's best five guys. We haven't seen them play together once.

  Van Gundy calls Lewis "disengaged." At this point in the game, Lewis has scored eight points in Games 1 and 2 ... combined. What's worse than disengaged? Unengaged? Misengaged? Degaged? Ungaged? Anti-gaged? Comatose? Dead? Whatever's worse, that's Lewis. One bright spot: during Game 2, my father mistakenly referred to him as "Rasheed" for a record-setting 2500th time. An emotional moment for everyone.


(Note to Lewis: It's only going to get worse when the series shifts back to Boston. Let's just say your 10-game suspension may inspire a tweet or two at twitter.com/celticschants this weekend.)

  A few seconds later, there's a TV timeout and we see Pierce and Rondo walking towards the bench ... with Pierce's arm draped around Rondo's shoulder like a big brother. That's been the biggest change this season. It took the veterans six solid months to accept that (A) this was now Rondo's team, and (B) they were along for the ride. They fought it, %@!*$*$ at him, bullied him, resented him, griped about him behind the scenes ... then the playoffs rolled around and everything fell into place. And really, that's the way it had to be. Pierce, Allen and Garnett can't bring it every night. The Celtics can always get a big game from one of them, and if they get two of them going, they're unstoppable. But Rondo is the constant. It's his team now. If you want to go deeper, one reason they struggle down the stretch is because Rondo (a poor free-throw shooter) doesn't want to get fouled, so he plays the last four minutes a little differently than the first 44. Hasn't been a problem in the postseason. Yet.
 

3:07: After a Celtics miss (good D by Orlando), the Magic clear out for Vince, who goes left, thinks about going to the rim, decides against it and settles for an awful fallaway 10-footer. "Gotta keep going to the rim, don't shoot the stepback!" Van Gundy gripes. (This goes back to the whole, "If you knock down Vince a few times, he'll stop going to the rim and settle for jumpers" argument that I've been making all playoffs. That's his career in a nutshell. He doesn't want to get hit.) Garnett answers with a pretty fallaway, Davis draws a charge from Redick on a floater (terrible call); Pierce misses a jumper (offensive rebound, Garnett); Rondo (25 points) drains a tough 18-footer. Celtics by three, 1:33 to go.





OK, stop it here.





This is the moment we've wondered about since last summer with the post-Turkoglu Magic: Down three, season effectively on the line, under two minutes ... where do they go? Last year, they would have run a high screen with Hedu and Howard.





This year? Let's see.





1:21: Our answer? A hurried 3-pointer by Nelson with 12 seconds left on the shot clock.





-- Jackson: "I don't like that shot at all."


-- Van Gundy (barely hiding his disgust): "No, that's a contested 3 early in the clock ... "


-- Simmons: "I told you!"

 

0:34: Closeup of Vince walking back out onto the court as Breen sets the stage: "Vince Carter, an eight-time All-Star, All-NBA player, this is first conference finals that he's played in ... and these are the moments we said that he was acquired for ..."





0:31: Great play call by Orlando, forcing Boston to switch off a double-screen so Davis is defending Vince atop the key. Vince beats him off the dribble, barrels into Pierce and forces Pierce's sixth foul. Couldn't have worked out better. You know, assuming he makes these. Which he should: 80 percent career, 84 percent this season, 82 percent in the playoffs.





0:31: Front of the rim ... off.





0:31: Closeup of Vince with a vacant look as every Magic fan gets Nick Anderson flashbacks.





0:31: Back rim, clang.

 

Put it this way: I don't think Orlando has a chance playing the style they played, with the lineups they used, against this particular Celtics team. Other than Howard's spot, they are worse at every other position. They aren't as tough. They can't rebound better or protect the rim better. They can't catch fire with 3s because Boston won't let them get open looks. They can't really stop Rondo or Pierce. They've lost homecourt advantage. They have to come up with something drastic -- and I mean, drastic, as in, "Let's go Sampson/Olajuwon with Howard/Gortat" -- to change what's happening here. And even that probably won't work. Not when the Celtics are locked in like this.





The bigger issue: Faux-urgency, as mentioned in last Friday's column. Charlotte and Atlanta softened this Magic team, boosted their confidence to abnormal heights, made them think they were better than they were. Up 20, they look like world-beaters. Down by three, they look tight. Making them no different than Cleveland, actually.





If you haven't done it before, there will always be five or six moments during a postseason when things look bleak and somebody steps up and says, "Don't worry, I got this." For the 2008 Celtics, it happened in Game 7 of the Cleveland series (Pierce for most of the game, then P.J. Brown with two huge baskets), Game 5 of the Detroit series (Allen and Garnett), Game 6 of the Detroit series (Pierce), Game 1 of the L..A. series (Pierce turning the tide in what Lakers fans now call the Wheelchair Game, which is funny because this is the same fan base that tries to make everyone else think that Kobe Bryant is basically a triple-amputee right now), Game 4 (Pierce and Allen obliterating the Lakers in the 25-point comeback and ending Sasha Vujacic's career in the process) and Game 6 (when KG and Boston's crowd took care of the rest).





Now, look at the 2010 Magic. We'll give them a pass on Game 1 -- rusty, lethargic, it happens. But Game 2? Howard didn't touch the ball in the final four minutes. Nelson forced that awful 3 with 1:21 left. Vince gakked the two free throws. Lewis had his second scoreless fourth quarter of the series. Who's left? The Celtics showed up for the 2010 Eastern Conference finals on Sunday afternoon. We're still waiting for the Magic.

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by Al3xis

I thought the Cavs would lose due to basketball reasons not dancing. So what am I sad about?

Can we finally get a list of these clowns on the Cavs? Is Antwan Jamison a clown? Anthony Parker? Shaq? Z?

you could say Mo, Delonte and Andy.


Celtics have Sheed, Big Baby and Nate Robinson. Those are 3 certified clowns. is that slowing them down? No, because that team is proving to be better at basketball.


It's either a LeBron/top player issue or it's not. So, If it's due to the top dog on a team not putting on a game face and having a stone cold killer look all the time to set the tone then nobody should ever think Dwight and Orlando are winning anything..right?

you are naming secondary players in comparison to the cavs. sheed is an exception to the rule. He is a clown that will @##! you up. Think dennis rodman. Sheed has a ring. big baby isn't a clown, he's a homosexual.... i don't see big baby taking fake pictures and doing ******ed hand motions. he's just a flamboyant guy. Nate is a certified clown but he doesn't play

You left lebron off that list. He is the ringleader of the clowns. so lebron, delonte, mo williams, and Andy V are clowns. those are main players. lebron can turn in the switch to beast mode but the others can't.

basically the cavs were clowns, got punched in the face and pooped the bed. But the celtics were just a better team. i have no idea if the clown talk is relevent or not but like CP said, if you look at the NBA champs of all time, you won't find a team full of clowns.

 

[al3xis]

Originally Posted by westcoastsfinest

Originally Posted by CP1708

J 33, no worries man, I don't even consider the Magic like the Cavs. 
Like I have said, all teams have a clown.  Or two.  Fine.  But a roster full of idiots bumbling around?  No chance winning a title.  NONE. 

See Sac Kings, Clev Cavs, and whatever other team of jesters you can find. 

this

i also agree that orlando isnt a bunch of clowns...dwight does his thing before the games kinda like what shaq did but NEVER during a game and thats the problem with the cavs...Lebron the unquestioned captain of the cavs was also the maestro of all the antics and dancing etc...its like what kinda message are you setting as a leader of the team?
  

What's the worse message

- dance routines

- pre game gambling routines until the morning

?

the better teams win. When you act a certain way and do certain things, you better have the game to back it up. Those that do, get passes. Those that don't get these labels.

The hell you talkin about there's only 3 @#$%^& guys?  Get outta here with that @#$%^%$#. 
Nobody would dare call Antwan a clown before he hit Cleveland. He's always been a pro. Same with Big Z, he's as dull as they come. 4 time champ Shaq? I dont think so. He knows what is needed to win. Anthony Parker who's played overseas to get to the NBA, he's entitled? Jamario Moon has the same story.

So yeah, I'd be interested to know who you would throw a clown label on outside of those 3? Guilty by association, I guess.

And even to throw Delonte in there he's been the only other player on the Cavs with the stones to step up in the playoffs and not shy away from anything.


The consummate pro, Antwan Jamison had the worst series on the team. Why? Cause the dude was overmatched and got his ##$ handed to him. Just like the team.



Remember when everyone on here was throwing hissy fits over the Celtics bench and their antics 2 years ago? I dont hear that stuff anymore. Because they've won a title by beating teams.

 

[proshares]

I think he was saying three certified clowns are on the Celtics, CP.

 

[banks2pierce]

Maybe it's the leader of the team that matters. KG slapped Sheed around in the shower(...) after game 1 of the Cavs and he woke up after that. If the top guys are serious, the clowns will generally fall into place. The Magic are a weird case.

Dwight's allegedly their leader, but I don't know who really runs that locker room. You see him smiling and acting all happy with 2 minutes left of a one point game. I wouldn't feel too confident in my team if I saw that.

 

[JD617]

big baby isn't a clown, he's a homosexual

 

[im not you]

I doubt very seriously that KG slapped Sheed around.

 

[CP1708]

Ok, no worries.  Like I said a billion times already and Allen refuses to listen, just sit back and name me that team that is a title winner that had nothin but practical jokesters.  Dance during/Before games.  Fancy handshakes.  Fake pictures.  Birthday cakes on the bench and @#$%.  Just go ahead and name that team for me.  I'll wait.............

........Forever, cuz it hasn't happened yet. 



As i said again for the billion and oneth time.  (oneth?) 

  They do all their dancing preening around, and then a bully shows up and smacks em, and takes away their little routines, and their done.  Break an athletes rhythms, rituals, and they are done for. 

I have yet to ever say it was the MAIN reason they won't win, I said it has been proven thru all of time that a team like that HASN'T won yet.  Further proven, this year, again.  Facts are facts. 

 

[JD617]

[h1]Another Fan Gets Tasered, And This Time It's A Player's Dad[/h1]

Why yes, astute police blotter readers, that was the father of Boston's Marquis Daniels getting removed from his seat, Tasered, and arrested during last night's game.

Orlando police responded to what's only being described as a "disturbance" in the seating behind the basket, late in game 2. They tried to escort out Willie Buie, who responded, "I'm not going, !%%* you." More officers responded, and took Buie to a security office. There, they tried to handcuff Buie, who resisted. He was then shocked with a Taser for five seconds.

Buie, who's got quite the rap sheet (including murder, jeez), was charged with resisting arrest. He was clearly upset about his son's DNP.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Rck, I meant the old Kings.  Not the current model.  Those other dudes were all jokesters when they played, soon as it got real, they tightened up fast as hell.  Much to my delight.  No offense.

No offense taken... cuz its true

 

[al3xis]

if you look at the NBA champs of all time, you won't find a team full of clowns.
What makes the competitive nature of the NBA so much different? Cause it's not a basketball issue and you definitely can't cross sports with this.

so this..

Break an athletes rhythms, rituals, and they are done for. 
can't be an athlete issue. Strictly exclusive to NBA players..


we have examples on NBA champions partaking  in drugs, alcohol, gambling and womanizing and it's not detrimental. But don't you dare dance or create handshakes. That will really seal your fate.

 

[CP1708]

Just name the team Allen.  Just gimme the name........

Show me the dancing teddy bears that won a title.  Do it. 

The booze, drugs, women etc don't have anything to do with being punched in the mouth by the other team.  Did you see the Cavs do any dancing, handshaking, taking pics during the Boston series?  Why not?  Why they stop doin that?  It was good times in January, why they stop doin it in early May? 

They dance much in the Orlando series last year?  Nope.  Just as soon as someone punched them in the mouth. 

 

[Deleted member 38182]

^The Celtics. Glen Davis.

 

[bhzmafia14]

 @ dancing teddy bears.

I can see where Allen is coming from, but I can also see where CP is coming from.

I just don't see how you can base a team not winning a title because they were goofing around before games. How about in football when the Bears use to make rap songs and the U did the same thing? I don't know if you want to use that same logic between football and basketball, but that Cleveland team just didn't have it. Of course, the difference is that they backed it up and still won ball games.

There are players from several teams who goof around at times on the bench when the game is going on though. Even when Cleveland was up 2-1 in the series against Boston, they weren't goofing around. It didn't necessarily have much to do with them getting punched in the mouth because they actually had control of the series at that point. Same thing in the Chicago series.