NYC HS Football Star Stabbed and Killed by Parking Lot Attendants *Fight vid on pg. 5*

[AtticusFinch]

Sad story. But I mean his father should feel bad, I mean it's pretty much completely his fault. He was the aggressor, and if anyone saw their father fighting their obviously gonna help. Life's too short.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?

If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.

From the NY Daily News:

The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.


Link

 

[got shoes]

crazy, this could of been avoided

 

[got shoes]

crazy, this could of been avoided

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?

If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.

From the NY Daily News:

The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.


Link

 

[AtticusFinch]

Sad story. But I mean his father should feel bad, I mean it's pretty much completely his fault. He was the aggressor, and if anyone saw their father fighting their obviously gonna help. Life's too short.

 

[kiendienn]

The son should've dragged his dad away like "dad, you're too grown and should be a lot more mature than this, I'll buy you your own cologne company when I go pro"

the attendants found that the football player and the dad were more than they could handle, so they had to resort to using a weapon to even the playing field.

people need to grow up.  yes, the son is accountable too. fighting wasn't the only option.

 

[kiendienn]

The son should've dragged his dad away like "dad, you're too grown and should be a lot more mature than this, I'll buy you your own cologne company when I go pro"

the attendants found that the football player and the dad were more than they could handle, so they had to resort to using a weapon to even the playing field.

people need to grow up.  yes, the son is accountable too. fighting wasn't the only option.

 

[size tens]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?

If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.

From the NY Daily News:

The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.

Link

So, this young man was not as innocent in the fight as a lot of you are claiming.

The attendants are going to claim they were on the defensive and "fighting for their lives" as they said.

Do I agree with the stabbing? Hell no! But when you step into a fight you are putting yourself in a situation for stuff like this to happen.

 

[size tens]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?

If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.

From the NY Daily News:

The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.

Link

So, this young man was not as innocent in the fight as a lot of you are claiming.

The attendants are going to claim they were on the defensive and "fighting for their lives" as they said.

Do I agree with the stabbing? Hell no! But when you step into a fight you are putting yourself in a situation for stuff like this to happen.

 

[doublejs07]

From another NYDN article:

Then the father noticed a $200 bottle of cologne he had bought as a graduation present had disappeared from the car. He swung back to the lot, which had a sign affixed to the gate.

"Surveillance

Camera de Vigilancia

Video y Audio"

Several cameras were affixed atop a hut just inside the gate. Beside the hut was a shovel. Video from atop the hut is said to show the father grabbing it.

What the father should have done, what anybody should do when they suspect somebody has stolen from them, is call 911. The responding cops would almost certainly have done what they could to solve the mystery of the missing graduation present, whatever the father's past with the law.

Instead, the father hit one attendant with the shovel, injuring his arm. Both attendants ran to the shed and locked the door.

At this point, the son responded as if the father were a quarterback calling a play. The son is said to have forced his way through the hut's door with the same speed and power that might have taken him to the NFL.

The son may have been following his father's example or he may have imagined he was defending Dad. Police say he began to pummel the attendants.

One of them stabbed the son with a shiv fashioned from sharpened steel and duct tape. The son died in his graduation suit.

After viewing the video and questioning all involved, police seemed ready to believe the attendants acted in self defense. The father was charged with assault.

The next time you seek to settle matters on your own when you should call 911, think of the father arraigned in Bronx Criminal Court while the mother sits sobbing, visibly pregnant with the twins her son promised to make part of his golden future.

Think of the blood seeping across the graduation suit of the kid who seemed to have made his own luck.


Link

 

[doublejs07]

From another NYDN article:

Then the father noticed a $200 bottle of cologne he had bought as a graduation present had disappeared from the car. He swung back to the lot, which had a sign affixed to the gate.

"Surveillance

Camera de Vigilancia

Video y Audio"

Several cameras were affixed atop a hut just inside the gate. Beside the hut was a shovel. Video from atop the hut is said to show the father grabbing it.

What the father should have done, what anybody should do when they suspect somebody has stolen from them, is call 911. The responding cops would almost certainly have done what they could to solve the mystery of the missing graduation present, whatever the father's past with the law.

Instead, the father hit one attendant with the shovel, injuring his arm. Both attendants ran to the shed and locked the door.

At this point, the son responded as if the father were a quarterback calling a play. The son is said to have forced his way through the hut's door with the same speed and power that might have taken him to the NFL.

The son may have been following his father's example or he may have imagined he was defending Dad. Police say he began to pummel the attendants.

One of them stabbed the son with a shiv fashioned from sharpened steel and duct tape. The son died in his graduation suit.

After viewing the video and questioning all involved, police seemed ready to believe the attendants acted in self defense. The father was charged with assault.

The next time you seek to settle matters on your own when you should call 911, think of the father arraigned in Bronx Criminal Court while the mother sits sobbing, visibly pregnant with the twins her son promised to make part of his golden future.

Think of the blood seeping across the graduation suit of the kid who seemed to have made his own luck.


Link

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?

If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.

From the NY Daily News:

The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.

Link

So, this young man was not as innocent in the fight as a lot of you are claiming.

The attendants are going to claim they were on the defensive and "fighting for their lives" as they said.

Do I agree with the stabbing? Hell no! But when you step into a fight you are putting yourself in a situation for stuff like this to happen.


Exactly.

I'll give the boy the benefit of the doubt in that he probably didn't know what started the fight...all he knew was that his dad was scrapping.  And like it's been said in here, if anyone sees their dad fighting 2 guys, you're going to rush to his defense, no questions asked. 

All it would have taken was for the elder Muller to call the police to sort everything out. 

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by SIZE TENS

The question is going to be was he dragging his dad away and breaking up the fight or did he jump into the fight to help his Dad continue the fight?

If he jumped in to continue the fight, I can see a self defense claim for the stabbing.

From the NY Daily News:

The video shows Andre Muller, 40, bashing one of the workers, Ramon Hernandez, with a snow shovel he picked up at the lot. The video also shows the younger Muller throwing punches, but not being stabbed, the prosecutor said.

Link

So, this young man was not as innocent in the fight as a lot of you are claiming.

The attendants are going to claim they were on the defensive and "fighting for their lives" as they said.

Do I agree with the stabbing? Hell no! But when you step into a fight you are putting yourself in a situation for stuff like this to happen.


Exactly.

I'll give the boy the benefit of the doubt in that he probably didn't know what started the fight...all he knew was that his dad was scrapping.  And like it's been said in here, if anyone sees their dad fighting 2 guys, you're going to rush to his defense, no questions asked. 

All it would have taken was for the elder Muller to call the police to sort everything out. 

 

[kingjay718]

Am I the only one that looked up the victim's girlfriend on Facebook?

This incident is the true definition of emotions acting without the benefit of intellect.  Sad.

 

[kingjay718]

Am I the only one that looked up the victim's girlfriend on Facebook?

This incident is the true definition of emotions acting without the benefit of intellect.  Sad.

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?





What?

thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...

i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.

 

[dt43]

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?





What?

thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...

i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.

 

[size tens]

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?





What?

thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...

i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.

I was beyond a fist fight.

 

[size tens]

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?





What?

thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...

i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.

I was beyond a fist fight.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?





What?

thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...

i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.

From what I gather, the fight went like this:

-Dad was beating on the attendants

-Attendant grabs chair/machete to ward off the dad

-Dad grabs a shovel and starts swinging (and hit an attendant)

-Son sees what's going on, and rushes to the aid to his dad and starts throwing hands

-Son gets stabbed in the middle of the fight


The son didn't deserve to get stabbed....but if the dad is the aggressor, what type of punishment do you see fit for the attendants?  I can totally understand where the "self-defense" argument comes into play. 

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

So they didn't charge the attendant who stabbed the boy?





What?

thats what i'm saying.. charge him with something.. you dont just pull out a knife in the middle of a fistfight and stab someone in the heart...

i'd like to see the guy get 5 years AT LEAST.

From what I gather, the fight went like this:

-Dad was beating on the attendants

-Attendant grabs chair/machete to ward off the dad

-Dad grabs a shovel and starts swinging (and hit an attendant)

-Son sees what's going on, and rushes to the aid to his dad and starts throwing hands

-Son gets stabbed in the middle of the fight


The son didn't deserve to get stabbed....but if the dad is the aggressor, what type of punishment do you see fit for the attendants?  I can totally understand where the "self-defense" argument comes into play. 

 

[dt43]

you're right, the dad brought out a shovel.

but the kid didn't have a weapon, and to straight up stab him in the heart was a criminal act. that dude better be in front of a judge explaining why he didn't just leave and call security, instead of pulling out a fckin knife to stab someone.

 

[foxdawg2000]

not surprised at all.. why would you be keeping a $200 dollar bottle of cologne in your car in NY? And would you beat someone to death for it? Certain things aren't worth fighting for.... obviously the attendants were crooks and tried to scam them but beating someone into submission over it? I fault the father for over reacting to the loss of cologne and what ensued after... In the case of the stabbing I believe that the man who stabbed the boy should get substantial jail time for fatally assaulting him.. Whole situation totally unnecessary.. Now that I have a son I feel it's vitally important to lead by example and obviously this father had a history of not doing so....

 

[dt43]

you're right, the dad brought out a shovel.

but the kid didn't have a weapon, and to straight up stab him in the heart was a criminal act. that dude better be in front of a judge explaining why he didn't just leave and call security, instead of pulling out a fckin knife to stab someone.