most of you wont believe me, but what I tell you is the truth. some of you have been given proof in the past that I'm telling you the truth. I have spoke with Tinker about this before and he has stated that we will never see an exact replica of a shoe because Nike does not want the value of the OGs to decrease. As stated by Tinker if we make more shoes that are exact replicas of the OGs it will ruin the collector market for OG shoes which drives the market for new shoes.
NIKE Air Jordan IV OG White Fire Red: Black Friday 2020: Nov. 28th
- Thread in 'Jordan Brand' Thread starter Started by KanyIZZY,
- Start date
most of you wont believe me, but what I tell you is the truth. some of you have been given proof in the past that I'm telling you the truth. I have spoke with Tinker about this before and he has stated that we will never see an exact replica of a shoe because Nike does not want the value of the OGs to decrease. As stated by Tinker if we make more shoes that are exact replicas of the OGs it will ruin the collector market for OG shoes which drives the market for new shoes.
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but the first shoe if I’m not mistaken that JB slapped a jump man on an “OG” colorway were the TB 3 in 2001, (although not really true to the OG)
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Ironically Tinker clearly described how he took off Nike branding from the 3s but put it back on as a compromise due to pressure from Nike execs. So that tab was supposed to have a jumpman. The compromise was leaving off the swoosh but putting back NA on the tab. Personally I think NA looks so much better, but if Tinker had his way, history would have played out differently.
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At least with the 4s, they’ve finally moved on from that horrible “fused netting” that was used on releases like the 2012 Bred 4s.
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Let’s also not forget the monstrosities known as the AJ 15 and these glory holes that Tinker released upon the world:
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Was gonna make the same comment. It was the 2001 TB 3. I remember being extremely disappointed and passing back in high school because they went with the jumpman.
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There are two major holes with that logic, or shall I say lack of.
1.) You can’t wear any original Jordan with the exception of the 1 and even those clearly show their age.
2.) Production tags. If we are to treat shoes as wearable art, production tags differentiate an original release from a retro
The 2001 III TB wasn’t released true to its Original colorway though, which is why I overlooked it. If the sock liner would have been correct then this definitely would have been the first shoe they butchered in regards to the heel.
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I’m with everyone on not wanting the Jumpman on the back of pairs that originally had the NA. But as I mentioned, I absolutely LOVE some of the LS and + colorways of some of these models, and those are colorways that have only ever had the Jumpman, and all indications are that they will only ever have a Jumpman. Specific pairs for me are the Columbia 4s, Oreo 4s, and Bling 4s, and the Olympic 6s. I’ve always loved these three LS and/or + 4s, with the complete leather upper without the mesh. And as for the Olympic 6s, a navy 6, but in the Carmine color blocking is perfect IMO.
As for us ever getting an exact 1:1 retro of last pairs, I think evidence shows us that they can (they obviously have the resources to do so), and while I think they never will, if they do it’ll be in the form of some crazy limited (think 1000 pairs total type of limited) drop.
Serious question, as I might be wrong, but have we EVER received a retro that was EXACTLY like the original? I feel like if we want to be particular, even the very first retros of models had differences from the OGs that we could pic apart. But I agree that the shape and certain cuts are the one OG detail that they keep fking up that irritates the hell out of me! I truly feel that they keep doing that to ensure the OGs and older models keep their status. Even when they get almost there, it’s like they have to do something to remind us that they’re Retros.
As for us ever getting an exact 1:1 retro of last pairs, I think evidence shows us that they can (they obviously have the resources to do so), and while I think they never will, if they do it’ll be in the form of some crazy limited (think 1000 pairs total type of limited) drop.
Serious question, as I might be wrong, but have we EVER received a retro that was EXACTLY like the original? I feel like if we want to be particular, even the very first retros of models had differences from the OGs that we could pic apart. But I agree that the shape and certain cuts are the one OG detail that they keep fking up that irritates the hell out of me! I truly feel that they keep doing that to ensure the OGs and older models keep their status. Even when they get almost there, it’s like they have to do something to remind us that they’re Retros.
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The most recent Shadow 10 was pretty 1:1
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Value can be sentimental or monetary, but if we're speaking in dollars...for what it's worth (no pun intended), today's kids/the current sneaker culture values Chunky Dunkys, Travis Scott's, Off Whites, etc. way more in both aspects, than OG's.
The game done changed.
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Someone should ask Tinker then why Jordan Brand is so bad with current innovation and design that your brand has to always rely on selling replicas of products you did 30+ years ago to make majority of your money now.
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True but the samples had Nike so they intended it as an og release with a subtle change like every other og release.
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Pics of said samples please. And thank you.
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Yes, we’re going to need proof of this claim.
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I think a lot of it has to do with MJ making these shoes iconic, can’t really replicate that with newer players wearing them on court. Also, it doesn’t help that as basketball tech improved on sneakers, they made them appeal less and less to casual wearers (this seems to be true across the board with all brands). I’m sure the AJ XXX4s are phenomenal performers on court but those do not belong on an outfit with jeans and other casualwear attire.
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I believe you. As we have spoken before on this. As far as his statement goes though, I still do not understand the logic.
Unwearable originals making people want an ALTERED version more? I truly believe they have always been able to recreate at least the build of the shoes exact. The materials on the other hand I can understand why they could not replicate.
We for years have always slammed Gent for the very statement your saying Tinker told you. If Nike gets a sale regardless, why do they say they appreciate the collector? But with some of the retro quality being crap, they show little to no appreciation to todays buyers that are more relevant then buyers from 20-30 years ago.
If I am a kid now a days that has a father with some 89 originals in DS condition, I am pissed when I bring my new retro home to compare. There to me is no reason why the build and shapes of these older models cannot be given to us again. And thats coming from someone thats been in this for 30 years. I have originals. I could care less if the new retro devalues them in any way. Tinker and Nike needs to realize this is an overwhelming opinion from older guys like myself. I have never heard one guy in here EVER state, "I hope they dont come out true to form because I have the originals" . Nobody is saying that.
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Yep! What also takes away from his logic is look no further than the retro Nike basketball line. The shape and details are even more off on some of the 90's retros than the Jordans. Nike cannot possibly say "Well, we want to respect the one collector who owns a DS OG Air Unlimited."
I guess I see in theory reasons to slowly do things, but for a company that prides itself on being the best of the best and in many ways the Rolls Royce of footwear they haven't really given a single damn about making a replica they way they claim (and charge for). And it's out of laziness, and yes the public buying whatever they throw up.
"We don't have the molds" has been another excuse. Ohhhhh okay. As I have said in here time and time again, a high school class could replicate these shoes as a project if given the time. Nike can come up with new $250 high-tech running shoes where every centimeter is accounted for and studied....yet they can't seem to figure out how not to do banana toes. BUT WAIT...it's all in the plan man!!!
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I agree with you. I am an older collector and it’s just stupid that they give us altered versions that sometimes look like bootlegs. The majority of originals can’t be worn anymore. I still have OG’s but that doesn’t mean I want retros to look different from them. Nothing can take away from having a first run of something. I want to wear a retro of a shoe I grew up with and I don’t want it to be drastically different. Hell, I pass on almost all 13’s because I can’t stand what they have done to that model. I wish the powers at JB would get their head out of their *** and produce the same quality of retros like they did with the OG’s. It doesn’t ruin anything. Maybe that’s just their excuse for being greedy and not having standards anymore.
I get it trust me these are the exact reasons I have asked him questions like this before, a lot comes in to play in this topic with high power nike executives and its marketing and respect for history are just 2 examples. of course they could make exact replicas. chevy could make brand new 1963 split-window corvettes too and Topps could print exact replica mickey mantle rookie cards right? but neither ever will. same goes for nike. if they remake exact replicas of past shoes it decreases overall demand. how many people would go nuts for the half *** retros. when we could have an abundance of exact replicas it would drive demand down. couldn't nike just make full runs of bred 1s every year? of course they could they would sell out every time right ? hell yeah they would? but they wont. they want to keep that demand always less than the supply thats what drives a market..
I dont in any way agree with the logic nike presents, I want the same as you guys, I care less about hype or any collecting aspect of it, I personally just want to wear shoes that I love. I have explained this to Tinker and tons of other people. they just wont give us what we really want it seems companies want to move forward and advance not stepping back but for us we want the same shoes we wore as kids and seen Mike fly in not bootlegs or shoes that have no meaning except they are kinda close to what we want. I have even mentioned that some of would pay 3 times the original cost no problem for an exact replica.
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Man, I can’t believe I’m about to defend Nike for this but I think molds for tooling are a bit different because it costs ~$500k for a good quality (in terms of build) mold for tooling. To recoup this money, there has to be incentive for the company and also the ability of manufacturing to produce a quality product as altering the molds essentially is not really feasible. A good example is the Air Jordan 9 retros-they arguably have the worst tooling out of the OG line with the stupid wrong Jumpman on them but there isn’t incentive for Nike/JB to update the tooling since they sell well enough. On the flipside, making a solid Air Max 96 retro with the proper tooling night not make financial sense as the model wasn’t as popular as the 95s or 97s. The most recent Air Max 96 retros used Air Max 95 tooling as a result. Obviously, the market changes so maybe we’ll see updated tooling on both of these models but there is a good amount of market economics that go into tooling development since just producing the molds is quite an investment by the company (not to mention research and design in ensuring tooling accuracy).
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Sorry y’all I was wrong with my statement up there.You have a different Sample picture than this?
That sample does have Nike on the insole though although I can’t find a picture to prove it.
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I find it hard to believe that Tinker said anything about honoring OGs by never replicating them. He did say that Jordan said a retro should never be greater quality than the OG....Well, they've passed that criteria with flying colors!
I can see how it might be hard to get 100% given that certain materials like the OG Durabuck is no longer available, so it's unlikely to ever be 100% the same.
However, in terms of shape, if they put the right product managers on the task, they could get it right, and there would certainly be a positive ROI despite having to redo the mold. They could also put appropriate quality leather, even if it's not exactly the same as the OG for practical sourcing challenges.
They simply choose not to put in the attention to detail. THAT SAID, we have seen they do so on the Concords (mostly), Playoff 11s (mostly) Infrared 6s (except for contrast heel from the lack of moulding in the modern process likely), and to some extent the red cement 3s of late. The BC4 were kind of a half *** effort they failed to take all the way home. I think this proves it's just a matter of time, but they do understand how to capture the appropriate details. The design of the 4 is far more complex than most of these others, and someone with a really good eye, and passion for details, needs to drive that project!
Personally, I'd be thrilled with an OG shape protro of these classics where the foam (maybe React), and Zoom air is used so they're actually super comfortable. I'd re-purchase ALL of the classics just for the comfort, even though they wouldn't be OG (other than shape). In my mind, after they get the OG correct, this is their next play....there's 20+ more years of projects right there for you Nike!
I can see how it might be hard to get 100% given that certain materials like the OG Durabuck is no longer available, so it's unlikely to ever be 100% the same.
However, in terms of shape, if they put the right product managers on the task, they could get it right, and there would certainly be a positive ROI despite having to redo the mold. They could also put appropriate quality leather, even if it's not exactly the same as the OG for practical sourcing challenges.
They simply choose not to put in the attention to detail. THAT SAID, we have seen they do so on the Concords (mostly), Playoff 11s (mostly) Infrared 6s (except for contrast heel from the lack of moulding in the modern process likely), and to some extent the red cement 3s of late. The BC4 were kind of a half *** effort they failed to take all the way home. I think this proves it's just a matter of time, but they do understand how to capture the appropriate details. The design of the 4 is far more complex than most of these others, and someone with a really good eye, and passion for details, needs to drive that project!
Personally, I'd be thrilled with an OG shape protro of these classics where the foam (maybe React), and Zoom air is used so they're actually super comfortable. I'd re-purchase ALL of the classics just for the comfort, even though they wouldn't be OG (other than shape). In my mind, after they get the OG correct, this is their next play....there's 20+ more years of projects right there for you Nike!
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It might be more than a snap of the fingers, but I think it’s wrong to think that JB CAN’T recreate retros closer to that of the OGs. I also think it has nothing to do with paying attention to details. Sure, certain things like some materials might not be as readily available as they once were, but they can definitely improve shape. The recent 11 patent cut, and 3 elephant print are prime examples IMO. I truly think it has comes down to them wanting to differentiate the newer releases from the older pairs. I mean look at the ‘85 Jordan 1s. They release a super limited pair of 1s with a the title of being as close to the OGs since the OGs. We’d all argue that all 1s should’ve BEEN made to be like the OGs. They’ll forever be able to say for future releases that “they’re not as good/well executed as the originals,” and IMO that can be said in most industries in general. Just waiting for them to eventually release an ‘88 3 (an ACTUAL ‘88 3), ‘89 4, and so on and so forth. If I was a betting man though, I’m expecting an OG accurate 2 first though. That pair is the least hyped of the original fourteen, but they’ll get all the hype of they lean into giving OG accurate shape, and OG accurate materials, even possibly made in Italy again.
