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Are most of you leaning towards the course of the future can be changed or everything is planned out through destiny and will take place regardless?
LOST Season 6 Preseason Thread vol. we almost there!
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by thasoleful1,
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But if he wakes up in the jungle again, what happens to the Jack from the flight? There cant be two running around... he doesnt die in the planecrash obviously. Does the Jack from the 815 crash get teleported to some other time, and then the Jack we're watching now wakes up in the jungle? No wait,that wouldnt make sense.
How would the Jack we're watching wake up in the jungle again, if he's already done that? Or has he done that?
$$!*... I'm starting to form theories and $$!* now that I cant answer
Well I'm leaning towards everything has a definite ending point, but things leading to that can be changed. The only constant is the beginningand end. Like Farraday said, they can die. Variables are changeable, but constants are not. So technically, Jack, Kate, Miles, Daniel, which plane crashed,they can all be replaced by something else. The constants (a plane crash happening, nuke, 'incident') aren't changeable.
Does that make sense?
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Hai Guiz!!!
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Episode was amazing.
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I'm leaning towards the ultimate endpoint being constant, as far as in the context of Lost and thisseries. The streams of events that take you there can veer off and vary, but at the end what happens happens. You can change the variables sure... Thatparticular plane doesn't have to crash, certain people don't HAVE to die, but in the end whatever that final important event is will happen.
As far as physics etc and real life are concerned though, I don't believe that anything is set in sto e. But at the same time, I don't really believein a butterfly effect... I've played with the idea of an ontological paradox as far as Lost is concerned and it seems to fit, but it also seems that theshow is written SO well, that even if certain things don't happen (i.e. Farraday trying to change the future) the end result is always the same. if hedoesn't try to change it the incident happens. He DOES try to save it, and dies trying, and it seems the incident happens anyway -- in fact maybe ONLYhappens because he tried. It seems like all people trying to change the past in this show just accelerates or delays the inevitable. My basic philosophy ontime travel in all cases -- both film and actuality-- is what will happen will happen, because if it hadn't, then you wouldn't be thereto try to stop it from happening.
I'm rambling...
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Damn, that Chang!!!! And Sawyer is B, you'll see why
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Originally Posted by Juicy J 32
What did that comic book say in the scene where Widmore visited Faraday?
It looked like Wired, of which JJ Abrams is a guest editor for this month's issue. Perhaps there are some clues in there (Abrams likes to do those things -I read his essay for the issue, interesting), or a shameless ploy to get people to buy it for no reason.
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nycknicks - do you know what's up with the Comicon video where Chang is filming a message for the future and Daniel is presumably behind the camera?
I doubt they would set up a teaser scene like that and then change plans to have Daniel die just before they get to these events. What gives?
I doubt they would set up a teaser scene like that and then change plans to have Daniel die just before they get to these events. What gives?
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Nice!!
After sleeping on it, it was a GREAT episode!! Everyone pretty much hit on everything I was thinking/wondering. They are answering so much now, it's hardto come up with 1,000,000 questions after the episodes now. But, I am DYING to see a centric episode of Alpert. And....
Why does Daniels mother HAVE to send him back to basically die? What are they trying to protect? I still can't understand why Widmore/Hawking/Ben are socontent on giving up everything for the island.
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YO! I usually don't participate in this thread because I dvr ep's and I hate going back through pages BUT...
Daniel Widmore/Hawking/Farraday dying is up there with Charlie dying for me
Truth.
Episode was amazing.
The best I've seen in quite some time.
But Daniel dying kinda hurt me. Almost like Bodie getting his cap peeled on The Wire.And I KNEW all along that Widmore was his Pop Dukes.
DF!!!
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But Daniel dying kinda hurt me. Almost like Bodie getting his cap peeled on The Wire.And I KNEW all along that Widmore was his Pop Dukes.
Agreed. DF.
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quick quesiton.. when penny went into the hospital room to see desmond.. and she didn't bring young charlie hume with her
did anyone else think that when eloise was walking out she would have charlie with her?
by the way.. it still can be in play.. since we never see penny leave the hospital room to get charlie from the lounge area..
especially when you consider that widmore was right outside.. and you also have to consider the potential third group, the "do you know what lays in theshadow of the statue" folk
did anyone else think that when eloise was walking out she would have charlie with her?
by the way.. it still can be in play.. since we never see penny leave the hospital room to get charlie from the lounge area..
especially when you consider that widmore was right outside.. and you also have to consider the potential third group, the "do you know what lays in theshadow of the statue" folk
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I was wondering that also. Bu, I find it VERY hard to believe after what just happened to them that she'd leave him out in the waiting room by himself orwith a stranger.
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i know.. but considering the convo she had with hawking.. and then finding out desmond was ok.. i think she could have had one of those moments where sheforgot about everything else and just wanted to see desmond..
i was totally expecting desmond to say "pen.. where is charlie" after a they were done hugging
i was totally expecting desmond to say "pen.. where is charlie" after a they were done hugging
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Still coming down off that high.
Crack episode man. Can't wait for the write-up this week.
Crack episode man. Can't wait for the write-up this week.
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Total CRACK! I was pretty pissed off that I had to leave early to make it in time for my hockey game but watched the remainder of the episode as soon as I gothome. Didn't even bother showering although I was sweaty and dirty as hell lol.
Daniel dying
!
Daniel dying
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You guys have already pretty much covered my musings/questions for this ep, so I'll list a few.
1. First off, "Phil, Jack....Jack, Phil" and "twitchey" Sawyer had me
2. Chang better be ready to lose his arm because I'm pretty sure we now know what "the incident" is. Whether Daniel is dead or not, it'slooking like Jughead is going to make another appearance.
3. I like how we just saw an entire episode of Miles trying to keep from Chang that he is his son and in the first few minutes, Faraday comes right out andsays it.
4. Would love, love, LOVE to see the scene where Radzinsky blows his own brains out. Cannot stand that sniveling worm. Same with Phil. I wish Sawyer wouldaslapped him around a little more.
5. I would have to say the reason Faraday was crying at the sight of the "Oceanic 815 wreckage" on the ocean floor is because he doesn't have thevivid memories of it yet but due to time traveling, somewhere in his brain he knows that it will eventually lead to the saddest moment of his life....whenCharlotte dies.
6. Faraday was wrong all along, and he admits it. You just can't trump humans and their own free will. Like many of the rest of you, I think he may havealready known he was going to get capped when he marched into the Others camp. They really made sure to focus on the gun he was carrying and he always held itaway from his side so everyone could see it.
7. Matthew Fox was on Letterman the other night and he says the cliffhanger for this season will be the biggest yet. He said it will actually probablydisappoint more than make people happy because they'll be longing to know what happened during the long hiatus.
1. First off, "Phil, Jack....Jack, Phil" and "twitchey" Sawyer had me
2. Chang better be ready to lose his arm because I'm pretty sure we now know what "the incident" is. Whether Daniel is dead or not, it'slooking like Jughead is going to make another appearance.
3. I like how we just saw an entire episode of Miles trying to keep from Chang that he is his son and in the first few minutes, Faraday comes right out andsays it.
4. Would love, love, LOVE to see the scene where Radzinsky blows his own brains out. Cannot stand that sniveling worm. Same with Phil. I wish Sawyer wouldaslapped him around a little more.
5. I would have to say the reason Faraday was crying at the sight of the "Oceanic 815 wreckage" on the ocean floor is because he doesn't have thevivid memories of it yet but due to time traveling, somewhere in his brain he knows that it will eventually lead to the saddest moment of his life....whenCharlotte dies.
6. Faraday was wrong all along, and he admits it. You just can't trump humans and their own free will. Like many of the rest of you, I think he may havealready known he was going to get capped when he marched into the Others camp. They really made sure to focus on the gun he was carrying and he always held itaway from his side so everyone could see it.
7. Matthew Fox was on Letterman the other night and he says the cliffhanger for this season will be the biggest yet. He said it will actually probablydisappoint more than make people happy because they'll be longing to know what happened during the long hiatus.
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so ben changed the game again. eloise said "for the first time in a long time i dont know whats going to happen"
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I don't think so. I just think she meant exactly what she said. She doesn't know what happens next.
mexicansoul
Banned
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what I wanna know is... Is hawking on bens or widmores side? Is she playing both sides? my god, this episode was so smile inducing
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^Well that's due to Ben's actions. She never predicted or knew that Ben would go and shoot Des and try and kill Penny. If she did know she'd alsoknow if they live or die and she'd be coming to the hospital for entirely different reasons. Like to claim Des' body or if he's alive to tell himsome nonsense to convince him to come to the island/or not come along since she would know he'd be alright. Something must've changed that she nowdoesn't know what will happen next. If not she must've always known that helping the O6 back to the island would be the last of things she'd knowwould already happen.
About the whatever happen will happen versus free will and all that it's a compromise of both. Certain things will always happen, it's how they willhappen that can be changed. We should all know this from the Des centrics. He knows Charlie will die but he was able to change how multiple times.Faraday's plan would always fail whether he knew it or not. I think he knew cuz the reason for actually fulfilling Charlotte's claim was half-assed.Thing is even if he didn't telll her anything she'd still come to the island and eventually die. All that future time travel and time travelexperiments probably gave him some strong sense of dejavu or something.
Oh and yea Dan and Richard definitely recognized each other. How many times has Alpert said "Do I know you?"
Does he have a bad memory or is just being a smart $@#? Dan was intrigued tofigure out if he too time traveled or doesn't age must've went with time travel and moved on to his goal. I think he thought he might die and becauseof that wanted to test it out.
About the whatever happen will happen versus free will and all that it's a compromise of both. Certain things will always happen, it's how they willhappen that can be changed. We should all know this from the Des centrics. He knows Charlie will die but he was able to change how multiple times.Faraday's plan would always fail whether he knew it or not. I think he knew cuz the reason for actually fulfilling Charlotte's claim was half-assed.Thing is even if he didn't telll her anything she'd still come to the island and eventually die. All that future time travel and time travelexperiments probably gave him some strong sense of dejavu or something.
Oh and yea Dan and Richard definitely recognized each other. How many times has Alpert said "Do I know you?"
darthska
Staff member
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Crazy episode, man.
After whatever happens... happens... how do Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Miles, Juliette, and Jack return to the present to experience their new... or old...existence?
I know that was worded weird, but...
Alright, Farraday said that the whole sequence of events 'starts this afternoon', when somebody digs too deep and hits that pocket of energy. O.K., sothat happens, causing them to cement the pocket of energy and begin pressing this button, one day Desmond doesn't press it, the plane crashes, putting ourbeloved actors on the island, causing a freighter to bring more folks to the island.
So if the pocket of energy is never dug into, or if some other obstacle prevents the above sequence of events, then our beloved actors have a new timeline tolive out, one that doesn't involve a plane crash.
Alright, so the plane doesn't crash. Awesome.
Except... they're in the 70s.
Wouldn't they have t get on the plane again and experience it not crashing? Or do they stay in the 70s, and in the future, the plane that doesn't crashstill lands in L.A., like it was supposed to, but none of those people are on it? Because their timeline went backwards; they were born whenever they wereborn, then they got on a plane that crashed, then they traveled through time back to the 70s, and they just stay on the island, while their 'alternate'self gets on the plane, lands in L.A., and continues on with life?
Because it is possible for a person to be... *ahem*... 'beside himself', so to speak. I mean, we just saw Miles staring through the window at hisfather holding a baby Miles.
So will there be 2 Jacks in 2003? A Jack in his 60s, that has spent the last 30 years on island he was transported back to after a plane crash in his late30s... along with the current Jack in 2003, that's going to get on a plane that's going to land in L.A. instead of crashing on Mystery Island?
After whatever happens... happens... how do Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Miles, Juliette, and Jack return to the present to experience their new... or old...existence?
Alright, Farraday said that the whole sequence of events 'starts this afternoon', when somebody digs too deep and hits that pocket of energy. O.K., sothat happens, causing them to cement the pocket of energy and begin pressing this button, one day Desmond doesn't press it, the plane crashes, putting ourbeloved actors on the island, causing a freighter to bring more folks to the island.
So if the pocket of energy is never dug into, or if some other obstacle prevents the above sequence of events, then our beloved actors have a new timeline tolive out, one that doesn't involve a plane crash.
Alright, so the plane doesn't crash. Awesome.
Except... they're in the 70s.
Wouldn't they have t get on the plane again and experience it not crashing? Or do they stay in the 70s, and in the future, the plane that doesn't crashstill lands in L.A., like it was supposed to, but none of those people are on it? Because their timeline went backwards; they were born whenever they wereborn, then they got on a plane that crashed, then they traveled through time back to the 70s, and they just stay on the island, while their 'alternate'self gets on the plane, lands in L.A., and continues on with life?
Because it is possible for a person to be... *ahem*... 'beside himself', so to speak. I mean, we just saw Miles staring through the window at hisfather holding a baby Miles.
So will there be 2 Jacks in 2003? A Jack in his 60s, that has spent the last 30 years on island he was transported back to after a plane crash in his late30s... along with the current Jack in 2003, that's going to get on a plane that's going to land in L.A. instead of crashing on Mystery Island?
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Interesting theory...
Anyways here are some pics from the promo for next week:
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Ska, like I said, even if they don't crash cuz of Dez not pushing the button, eventually they have to crash and land on that island. Cuz you gotta figure aseries of events all island exodus related HAD to have happened just for some of these characters to exist.
If the incident never happens, most of the people never leave the island, the O6 never exist to begin with to later crash and then exist on the island aselderly people (assuming thats what happens) in 2003. There can't be a Jack in LA and a Jack on the island, because reason alone says Jack can't be onthe island if his plane anywhere in time lands in LA, because then old Jack would have never crashed to be on that island because future Jack lands.
unlss the show cops out and they just fade away. or the two timelines meld and the O6 are retransported onto the plane that lands safe and off the island...
If the incident never happens, most of the people never leave the island, the O6 never exist to begin with to later crash and then exist on the island aselderly people (assuming thats what happens) in 2003. There can't be a Jack in LA and a Jack on the island, because reason alone says Jack can't be onthe island if his plane anywhere in time lands in LA, because then old Jack would have never crashed to be on that island because future Jack lands.
unlss the show cops out and they just fade away. or the two timelines meld and the O6 are retransported onto the plane that lands safe and off the island...
