LOST (GOAT SERIES) OFFICIAL THREAD VOL YOU CAN GO NOW.

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by ExtRaOrDinaRy SwAg

But I do want to ask Zik or EBW if there was ANYTHING you disliked about this season or the finale? Yall seemed gung ho about it being FLAWLESS, I liked how it ended and all but I still didn't think this season was very good compared to the others.

I don't want to call you a liar but I don't think you've read any of my posts since the finale aired. I definitely don't think it was flawless. I think the finale was great but I didn't care much for the purgatory ending although I completely understand it and for the emotional pull it had on most fans. Everything on island was just about great for me. In the end the things I liked about the finale outweigh the things I didn't like. I also didn't come in with the expectation that all the answers were going to be in this ep. I was just expecting a season/series finale that'd be on par if not better than the previous season finales of LOST. I will say I kinda hated that Kate didn't die but she kinda became irrelevant in the end for me.

Originally Posted by DubA169

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Ican understand being mad but how did yall get played when the creatorshave been saying for seasons that they wouldn't answer every singlequestion and that if you're focused on that at not the story you'll bedisappointed? Didn't Lindelof and Cuse say they were focused on thecharacters and not the mysteries?

I came in to this season knowing that the things I wanted answers toand to find out wouldn't all actually happen. Seem like yall dudes werewaiting until the finale to say this when you should've noticed halfwaythrough this season.

theyonly pulled out that "it's about the characters, not the mystery" linea couple of weeks ago. check out old interviews where they promise thatit will all fit together in the end. cmon people you really want tomake the argument that the mysteries were irrelevant?

theres a difference between not answering every question and going out of your way to not answer ANY questions

this entire season was filler. that whole MIB/Jacob storyline is messyas hell. we were shown absoultley nothing to make us beleive that theworld would cease to exist if MIB got to the mainland. how were people"brought" to the island? why would people still be coming there? weknow that they do because hurley becomes the protector. why was jacobbringing people to the island before he was looking for a canidate?this is all recent stuff.

Nah they didn't pull thatexcuse a few weeks ago. PPL been impatient about Walt since S4 andweren't satisfied with a cameo in S5.

So far I've just seen ppl say we got played, wasted 6 years but noteven post the questions they so desperately wanted answer. S6 was notthe best LOST season and there were a few eps that were meh but it'snot like the whole season was trash. If you thought that I wonder whyyou kept watching? Hope that the finale would be packed with all of theanswers you wanted?

Now the questions you asked in this post makes me wonder if you werepaying attention. Jacob brought ppl to the island for his little ofgame of are humans good or evil. Jacob kept bringing ppl to the islandfor the game cuz in his mind it only ends once so after they all killedeach other or Smokey did he bring a new batch of ppl(see end of S5).How do you know Jacob wasn't always looking for a candidate just incase MIB succeeded earlier in getting him killed? The last few epsobviously proved "It has to be you" is complete bs and just trivial.Have you forgotten the amount of names on the cave wall? or that therewere 108+ names in the light house? Jacob been keeping tabs on mad ppljust in case. Notice he didn't tell Jack it had to be him. He left itup to whoever was left over.

Why would you ask why ppl kept coming to the island when Hurley was theprotector? ASK HUGO. That's a whole other damn journey. Maybe he wantedto screw over his friend that betrayed him and took his girl.

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Iappreciate you responding so let me ask you since the smoke monster wascreated by the light and the human form of MIB is a skeleton then thePOWER of the smoke monster to inhabit Locke should have just died whenthe light went out right?  The light gave POWER to smokey so all hispowers should be gone right?  Isn't inhabiting a human form a smokeypower? 

When I put a laughing emotion, it's because I wasdying laughing at how CORNY it was.  Everything from all theseemotional tear jerker scenes to Jack jumping from a rock like a KUNG FUmaster was just too much. 

When the light went out itdoesn't mean the smoke monster dies with it. MIB was originally humanso he went back to being human when the light went out. When he "took"Locke's body it was stated that it was permanent. Just because that isone of his powers doesn't mean when the light goes out everything he'sdone regarding his powers gets reversed.

The process of himtaking on the form of someone else wasn't shown. The way there were twoLocke's(the dead real one) and FLocke we can assume MIB went throughsome process where he made a doppelganger/clone. Maybe the smoke justcopied his human form and left the original body. It's already made soit's not gonna just vanish with the light but his power to do it againwill.

You really thought Jack jumped from the rock like a kung fu master?

Dude had higher ground, took advantage of that and had his fist raisedto attack. You acting like he did the bicycle kick or the helicopterkick to take Locke down.

So you're telling me we don'tknow how why there are 2 human bodies of Locke... it is what it is? Hmmmm well you said CLONING so THEORY #1,298,298,188 that will never beexplained but hey that's not important because this is a "CHARACTERBASED STORY". 

 However we do know that this light gave power to smokey and now thatit's gone,POOOF, there goes smokey's power to turn to smoke.  He is nowstuck in a human clone of Locke and is able to be hurt.  Got it.  Makescomplete sense. 

Seeing as MIB took the form of dead ppl and when the light went out he was able to be physically hurt, basically, yeah.

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by ONHOLLOWEDGROUND821

Originally Posted by dhart48

  And with that I am done with Lost and this thread.  Nothing more to add. It is what it is. I found the finale corny and too dramatic/cheezy but whatevers.  It's just another sitcom.

THE END!

Later.

 

[crazy ebw]

Zik your so right about people watching expecting certain answers. It's like dudes have kept up with the show since season 2 to find out why Walt was "special" and why the pallet drop occured.

 

[wawaweewa]

At least I can say "I told you so"...to my friends.
Sometime during the 4th season it occurred to me a lot of the mysteries/"@*@" moments were there just for the sake of being there.
I used to watch the show religiously up to then but then stopped. Before the final season I caught up because I thought I'd give the writer's a chance. I thought that maybe I was wrong. Through six episodes of this season I gave up again. It became blatantly evident what they were doing.

Some people will defend LOST because they're way too invested in it.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Zik your so right about people watching expecting certain answers. It's like dudes have kept up with the show since season 2 to find out why Walt was "special" and why the pallet drop occured.

This is such a cop out. So after all was said and done, LOST was just a ...........Soap Opera?

 

[i wear sneakers]

Wow. Just spent a long time reading everything and catching up.

I've pretty much agreed with everything Zik said.
Since the beginning of the show a lot of the stuff has been open to interpretation and now that it's over it will continue to be like that.

Why was Walt special? IDK ... but why can Miles hear dead people? It's just something you have to take for what it is. I don't see anyone questioning why Miles and Hurley had some supernatural powers.

I will admit I'm kinda mad Walt wasn't in the finale at all.
I coulda swore I read that Darlton said he would appear and when he showed up for the Lost Live event I thought for sure he would pop up somewhere.

We'll continue to talk and argue and theorize about everything for as long as we want to and that's what's great about the show. It made you think, reflect, and ultimately left everything up to you on what you want to believe and how you want to interpret everything that happened.

Doc Jensen posted part1 of his column and I'm sure Vozzek's will be dope as always whenever it comes out ...

 

[39478]

LOST.
I'm gonna miss it.

Almost teared up a few times. Amazing how we can care so much about characters that don't exist. Fantastic acting, writing, and storyline.

Time for a re-watch of it all again

 

[crazy ebw]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Zik your so right about people watching expecting certain answers. It's like dudes have kept up with the show since season 2 to find out why Walt was "special" and why the pallet drop occured.

This is such a cop out. So after all was said and done, LOST was just a ...........Soap Opera?

 

[hymen man]

Just watched the final scene again, so touching and sad at the same time.

 

[putting in work]

Never kept up with the show nor saw one episode...

But, I did see it all over TV at work today...

So from what I can gather by looking at the screenshot for the show that everyone knows about I'm guessing it's people trapped on an island...

I'm guessing the last episode was about if they did or didn't make it off of the island...

Did they?

Someone fill me in.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by Crazy EBW

Zik your so right about people watching expecting certain answers. It's like dudes have kept up with the show since season 2 to find out why Walt was "special" and why the pallet drop occured.

This is such a cop out. So after all was said and done, LOST was just a ...........Soap Opera?

Stoneface all you want but in the end LOST was about 437.37 explanations short of mind blowing.

The writers just jerked the viewers around.

This doesn't mean that it's not an enjoyable show. It's more like the writer's fell in love with the show's mystique.

I realize that there were/are fans who were more into the characters of the show instead of the mystery side but %$@@, there are better character driven shows out there.

 

[non flammable]

---

Has anyone posted this yet? Apparantly a writer or somebody that works at Bad Robot posted this on a board somewhere after the show to answer questions



Quote:
[table][tr][td]First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[mronegative]

Originally Posted by REDUCE523

Originally Posted by franchise3

EBW is a cool dude, but come on.

Walt and Aaron weren't special? This dude Walt had like super powers (it seemed) at times. Why did the Others want him so bad? The pyschic making sure Claire takes care of Aaron, or, impending doom? To the etc.

And for the other guy saying us asking questions are asking the wrong questions, as, it's Jack's story, I don't buy it.

You can fault some of us for questioning stuff when it was the WRITERS who drilled this stuff in our head to further the mysteries. We didn't make Dharma interactive websites like they did.

They're the ones who created and furthered the mystique, but when push came to shove, and the clock was running out, they opted to not answer most of the questions that they created.

They're the ones who opened up Pandora's box. Not us.

This is exactly how I feel alot of people are saying enjoy the ride. When I felt the whole time I was supposed to immerse myself in the show. And I thought the show was cool but I feel cheated.  What happened we had millions of mysteries and most either got explained all weak as in the whispers are stuck on the island and some just never touched like Walt.  But its over and no matter what it was still a cool show.

THIS
People like crazy's problem is that they died a long time ago. All of us are waiting for that little revelation of their denial to come through so that they can just move on. They don't care that we see Lost as one of the great shows to ever be on TV. Because that probably means we didn't get it since it's obviously the greatest show of this and the last generation.

Right now is when a real dialogue can be made about the show. Everyone's put in the work, who care to and it won't ever be as relevant as it is now. But they're the type to wait until everyone stops caring (i.e. Buffy/X-files stans) to fall back off their high horse a little bit. It's why when we hear them jock themselves (cuz they got the show, so they're better than us) and insult fans who loved the show, their words fall on deaf ears. These dudes need Jacob. They need to wake up.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

 

[jc619er]

My take on it is this. We all knew that it was going to be religious at the end. I mean it had that undertone from the beginning. So when it all ended in a heaven and hell, good defeats evil story I don't think it should have been that much of a shock. Of course we all wanted all the questions answered and people felt they needed everything spelled out for them but then look at real life, things are never that simple in reality. I mean does anybody truly know what happens when you die? Do we know if there's a heaven or hell or a waiting place for us to be forgiven and then be able to "pass on" to the after life? We don't. There's a book in every language and every culture that has their own view as to what happens but none of it is fact. It's all just belief and faith. So that's how I look at this series as a whole. It was just a very well written story about personal faith and the choices you make and the consequences those choices have. And then just as in real life there is always the science factor to balance out the beliefs in religion and I believe that's the importance of Dharma in the show. Dharma was there to show the science side of the argument and trying to explain it with facts and not faith or belief. And in reality science can't explain belief or faith either and whether there is truly a heaven and hell or whatever you call it.

As for the show in general it was incredible. The character development was amazing and the show always kept you on edge wondering what's going to happen next. And then when it all came down to it in the end the writers showed us another way to "believe" or have "faith". I too wish things like the Numbers were explained and what the temple did and who the Others were but then when I really sit back and think about what happened throughout the whole series, it is still amazing and always kept me entertained. I enjoyed every bit of the show even if it's supposedly flawed. Truthfully if they would have just spent season six holding our hands and explaining word for word what everything meant it would have made everybody just as mad for having invested so much personal time over the past six years in researching and discussing and theorizing on what it all means. That's half the fun of the show and makes you want to go back and watch it over and over again to see if you can find just one more clue or one more hint. For me I'm definitely satisfied and absolutely loved the finale. I'm excited to get the entire box set on bluray in a couple months so I can sit down and watch it again thoroughly and enjoy it all over again.

 

[bns1201]

was it ever explained how walts balls dropped??? i'd really hate for them to blame puberty on "magic" thats such a cop out

/sarcasm

 

[duba169]

so the mysteries were never intended to be important?




AVC: At some point, is Lost going to have to shift fromflashing forward and flashing back and having mysteries and character moments,and instead become a straightforward action-adventure, in order to get to thatbig finish?
[h1]
[/h1][h1]Carlton Cuse In terms of abandoning mysteries, no.Fundamentally, Lost is a mystery show, so I thinkthat would be stripping the franchise of sort of its essential nature. In termsof how we'll tell the story, that's something very much in flux. This year, thedegree of difficulty went up, as Damon was alluding to before. Before, we wereputting the tiles of the mosaic in the present and in the past. Now, we'reputting tiles in the present, the past, and the future. But what you considerthe present, the past, and future is dependent on where your point of view is.The only rule that we have about that is that we're not bound to any rules. Wewill basically tell the remaining stories in the way we think is mostcompelling from a narrative perspective.
[/h1]http://www.avclub.com/art...-and-carlton-cuse,14231/

 

[Master Zik]

So wait when they do explain a mystery and yall don't like it it's weak but when they don't answer some question yall go in to a rage about how yall were cheated. Were any of you happy with the answers you did get? Cuz if not why would you want more to be answered? I don't see how you could hold LOST in high regard in the revealing a mystery department if you didn't like any of the mysteries they did reveal.

 

[cragmatic]

I still can't decide, but the more I think about it, the finale really was exceeded my expectations. They tied the "sideways world" in better than I could have ever imagined.







Although I would have preferred if we got answers instead of a sideways world ever existing.... just saying

 

[duba169]

with that quote i'm not even arguing if the answers were good or not. i'm just responding to the absurd idea that lost was only a character driven show and the mysteries were fan created. the writers hyped the mysteries up just as much as the characters.



to answer your question i liked what was in the hatch. i liked how the polar bears moved the island. hated most of the answers though. was fine with richard's explanation The numbers one especially felt incomplete. i didn't appreciate the answer to "what is this island and why are we here"

 

[hymen man]

Originally Posted by jc619er

My take on it is this. We all knew that it was going to be religious at the end. I mean it had that undertone from the beginning. So when it all ended in a heaven and hell, good defeats evil story I don't think it should have been that much of a shock. Of course we all wanted all the questions answered and people felt they needed everything spelled out for them but then look at real life, things are never that simple in reality. I mean does anybody truly know what happens when you die? Do we know if there's a heaven or hell or a waiting place for us to be forgiven and then be able to "pass on" to the after life? We don't. There's a book in every language and every culture that has their own view as to what happens but none of it is fact. It's all just belief and faith. So that's how I look at this series as a whole. It was just a very well written story about personal faith and the choices you make and the consequences those choices have. And then just as in real life there is always the science factor to balance out the beliefs in religion and I believe that's the importance of Dharma in the show. Dharma was there to show the science side of the argument and trying to explain it with facts and not faith or belief. And in reality science can't explain belief or faith either and whether there is truly a heaven and hell or whatever you call it.

As for the show in general it was incredible. The character development was amazing and the show always kept you on edge wondering what's going to happen next. And then when it all came down to it in the end the writers showed us another way to "believe" or have "faith". I too wish things like the Numbers were explained and what the temple did and who the Others were but then when I really sit back and think about what happened throughout the whole series, it is still amazing and always kept me entertained. I enjoyed every bit of the show even if it's supposedly flawed. Truthfully if they would have just spent season six holding our hands and explaining word for word what everything meant it would have made everybody just as mad for having invested so much personal time over the past six years in researching and discussing and theorizing on what it all means. That's half the fun of the show and makes you want to go back and watch it over and over again to see if you can find just one more clue or one more hint. For me I'm definitely satisfied and absolutely loved the finale. I'm excited to get the entire box set on bluray in a couple months so I can sit down and watch it again thoroughly and enjoy it all over again.

Good post. 

 

[nawlinsjunkie]

Alot of you need to chill with the unanswered @#$%.

Do I wish Lost answered some of the mysteries? yeah, but alot of stuff you guys are bringing up are ridiculous. "Who was the fake mother, who built the Egyptian statue, what is the light" etc.

Compare Lost to any other sci-fi tv series/movies. Do the Star Wars movies explain where Yoda came from? Before episode 3, did they explain how Obi-wan could return and talk to Luke as a ghost whenever he wanted? Hell they barely even explain what the force is. You can't expect answers to things like that because its sci-fi, its just SUPPOSED to be that way.

And anyone who watched from Season 1 knew EXACTLY why they were on the island. They showed all the main characters' lives being complete disasters back home through the flashbacks, but on the island they all had a purpose. I mean how much more obvious could they get

  the mysteries were just @#$% on the side. the entire show is about character development (Jack turning from science to faith, Sawyer from con artist to a "good guy", Ben from an evil dude to a good guy, etc)

 

[banks2pierce]

And most of the science fiction questions were answered for me personally. Other stuff like Walt growing up and Eko being a weirdo just kind of put them in a bind. The sci fi stuff pulled the storyline and the characters along and I really appreciated that. Also appreciated that it was about the people and their relationships at the end. That's going down the "meaning of life" road and the most important lessons for mankind to learn(in my eyes, anyway) so I really loved that.

I'm just a bit bothered by someone like Penny being there at the end. Throws me off because she didn't really have interaction with Jack. It's a scene they planned for ages so they had a great idea of what it was so Penny's presence is throwing me for a loop. If Penny, why not their son and Ji Yeon? I'm fine with Sayid and Shannon, though others have a major issue with that. Bad things surrounded when he and Nadia were together and I'm not sure if they were truly meant for each other. Just the impression I got.

Wreckage at the end still getting to me as well. I think it was to fuel debate and speculation.

 

[hymen man]

There will never be another show like this again. The story, the acting, the writing everything was on point. Matthew Fox needs to win an Emmy this year, his acting was top-notch and I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors. God I can't get over the fact that it's over, there were some flaws in the finale but overall... this is the best show in television history according to me. Changed lives, made you feel emotions you normally wouldn't feel and that's all I ever ask for in being entertained, LOST just made the experience that much better with all the real-life overtones attached to it.

 

[kicks r me]

Originally Posted by non flammable

---

Has anyone posted this yet? Apparantly a writer or somebody that works at Bad Robot posted this on a board somewhere after the show to answer questions



Quote:
[table][tr][td]First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.[/td][/tr][/table]

At first read, this sounds pretty good however this "Bad Robot employee" sure has a few holes in their explanation (as well as spelling errors).  He/she says that the Church scene was written to have only Season 1 characters yet Desmond and Penny were in there??

 

[hymen man]

Well Desmond was the one that had to bring them all together. He was the missing piece sort to speak, and Penny's just his love interest, so she gets to tag along.. IDK, maybe i'm wrong.