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[akajae]

 

[Lizakers]

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

[emoji]129300[/emoji]

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

[emoji]128526[/emoji]

 

[dceja]

He's gonna take dlo from us

 

[VinMillerHearn58]

 

[mr j 858]

[

B]Phil Jackson Considered Trading Kobe Bryant for Grant Hill[/B]


View media item 2153320


“Kobe showed up at the press conference that introduced me as the new Lakers coach. He came up to my hotel room afterwards and we had our first face-to-face connection. He said he had read all about my championships with the Bulls and had studied several game tapes, so he was very excited. Kobe was 20 years old and had already played three NBA seasons.[…] “The Summer League was in Los Angeles that year and we sat together to watch the games that the Lakers had. Jim Cleamons was one of my assistant coaches in Chicago and would also be on my staff with the Lakers. So it was JC who coached the team of free-agent hopefuls and draft choices. As I explained the unfolding of the elementary triangle offense that JC had installed, as well as more of the advanced principles, Kobe was still excited. It was clear to me that he not only was willing to learn, but that he really wanted to learn.

“Then he fell and broke his wrist in our first exhibition game. For several weeks, Kobe had to be sidelined and watch guys like (Shaquille O’Neal), Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, A.C. Green, Brian Shaw and Robert Horry pile up a 10-1 record. Shaq had really bought into the triangle and was well established at the heart of our offense. […] When Kobe was healed and ready to return, I was a bit reluctant to make a major alteration in our winning combination. So I suggested that Kobe come off the bench. ‘I don’t see myself not starting,’ was his response. ‘I don’t want to be known as a bench player.’ Here was a 20-year-old already concerned about his legacy. So we had a little pushback, an indication of what might lie ahead.

“A couple of weeks later, we’re still winning and Shaq is completely motivated. But Kobe was only averaging about 19 points per game. So Kobe called Jerry West and wanted to know how Jerry and Elgin Baylor both averaged 30 points. Kobe also said that he wanted to be traded. Of course, Jerry told me about the conversation. And, for a few minutes I thought about taking the Pistons up on an offer they made to trade Kobe for Grant Hill. Make that a few seconds. […] The thing was that Kobe already saw himself as being one of the greatest players in the history of the NBA. I thought that, in time, he would indeed reach that goal.”

 

[anteatert]

Glad to see no SCumbags in here.

While I do with this sentiment, I would have gone to USC instead of UCI if they would have accepted me 

.

Although Irvine definitely has the best girls out of all the Cali Schools. 

 

[delete1234]

thats why kobe the goat...he had to overcome being in shaqs shadow, no one ever did that

 

[pmatic]

[

B]Phil Jackson Considered Trading Kobe Bryant for Grant Hill[/B]


View media item 2153320


“Kobe showed up at the press conference that introduced me as the new Lakers coach. He came up to my hotel room afterwards and we had our first face-to-face connection. He said he had read all about my championships with the Bulls and had studied several game tapes, so he was very excited. Kobe was 20 years old and had already played three NBA seasons.[…] “The Summer League was in Los Angeles that year and we sat together to watch the games that the Lakers had. Jim Cleamons was one of my assistant coaches in Chicago and would also be on my staff with the Lakers. So it was JC who coached the team of free-agent hopefuls and draft choices. As I explained the unfolding of the elementary triangle offense that JC had installed, as well as more of the advanced principles, Kobe was still excited. It was clear to me that he not only was willing to learn, but that he really wanted to learn.

“Then he fell and broke his wrist in our first exhibition game. For several weeks, Kobe had to be sidelined and watch guys like (Shaquille O’Neal), Glen Rice, Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, A.C. Green, Brian Shaw and Robert Horry pile up a 10-1 record. Shaq had really bought into the triangle and was well established at the heart of our offense. […] When Kobe was healed and ready to return, I was a bit reluctant to make a major alteration in our winning combination. So I suggested that Kobe come off the bench. ‘I don’t see myself not starting,’ was his response. ‘I don’t want to be known as a bench player.’ Here was a 20-year-old already concerned about his legacy. So we had a little pushback, an indication of what might lie ahead.

“A couple of weeks later, we’re still winning and Shaq is completely motivated. But Kobe was only averaging about 19 points per game. So Kobe called Jerry West and wanted to know how Jerry and Elgin Baylor both averaged 30 points. Kobe also said that he wanted to be traded. Of course, Jerry told me about the conversation. And, for a few minutes I thought about taking the Pistons up on an offer they made to trade Kobe for Grant Hill. Make that a few seconds. […] The thing was that Kobe already saw himself as being one of the greatest players in the history of the NBA. I thought that, in time, he would indeed reach that goal.”

ska is in the fetal position at this trade proposal.

 

[kookcle]

I understand why Phil would consider that.

Grant Hill was just hitting his prime.

Shaq + Healthy GH would still 3-peat imo

 

[run.lmc]

I understand why Phil would consider that.

Grant Hill was just hitting his prime.

Shaq + Healthy GH would still 3-peat imo

Agreed.

 

[darthska]

[quote name="PMatic"][quote name="MR J 858"]

Phil Jackson Considered Trading Kobe Bryant for Grant Hill


View media item 2153320

[/quote]ska is in the fetal position at this trade proposal. [/quote]Facts.

The thing is, though, Grant's and Kobe's careers are both over. I think a very large majority of us would agree that the 3-peat would have still happened with Grant, even with the injuries. But our last 2 championships, by the time Bynum come around, I mean Grant was a role player with the Clippers by that time, no? So even if he was with us, he wasn't effective anymore, and Kobe was killing it. So the 3-peat I think still happens, but those last 2, if it was someone else other than Kobe, we are in rebuilding mode instead of championship mode a lot sooner.

But maybe we draft someone else.

 

[essential1]

The thing is, though, Grant's and Kobe's careers are both over. I think a very large majority of us would agree that the 3-peat would have still happened with Grant, even with the injuries.

HAD Grant stayed healthy, a good chance.

But Lakers wouldn't have won any if we got the Grant Hill that happened in reality.

Got injured in the 2000 playoffs... Probably lose to the Blazers.

Only played 4 games in 2001.. We would have been a lower seed, we wouldn't have gotten past the Spurs.. Kobe in that series was better than Shaq was. Tilts it from a 4 game sweep to likely a 6 game loss

Played 14 games in 2001-2002... Probably wouldn't have beaten the Spurs.. Definitely wouldn't have passed the Kings.

 

[darthska]

But... REASONS!!!



Nah, I agree with you, because I didn't realize that was when he was playing like a dozen games a season.

If he were a crucial part of how we were constructed, it would be tough to win ONE with him playing 4 games, let alone win THREE... IN A ROW.

I've always thought this about Grant, though, and it's going to sound like a knock even though I'm a huge fan: it's a lot more motivating to come back to a premiere team like our Lakers back then or the Warriors right now than it is coming back to a midlevel team like Grant's Pistons or today's Mavs.

Also, our training staff back then was among the next in the league. I'm saying, I don't think he would have missed as much. He wasn't as injury prone at Duke at all, but that was ABSOLUTELY a premiere college program at the time.

But this is all total conjecture, and I've already given enough fodder for certain people to Moon-light my reply as saying something that I'm not actually saying.

 

[CP1708]

I don't agree that Grant gets them the same titles. Not at all.

Early Grant was not a very good defender. Nor was he a very good shooter. Even if healthy, his game wouldn't match anything Kobe gave us.

His best attribute would have been he would have catered to Shaq more, no doubt there. He would have moved the triangle well, but lesser defender, lesser shooting in the early 2000's West???? Naw.

And I like Grant. One of the few Dukies I do like. Detroit Grant was nice as hell, because Detroit Grant forever had the ball. Playin off Shaq, with lesser skills? I don't see how we improve there, not to even mention the shortening of the window.

 

[dceja]

With grant the kings smoke us

 

[three6mafia2007]

Hell, I don't think we make it past the Blazers. But the Kings for sure would have smoked us, even if grant stays healthy(he wouldn't have)

 

[mr j 858]

 

[cruzair13]

Man Shaqs hall of fame ceremony is this weekend and I'm located in Mass two hours away, originally from 626(Duarte). Would be a site to see everyone there and AI and Yao being honored. It's 500 dollars but TAX deductible.

Saving up for 7 years for mambas.

NT lakeshow thread Summit?

 

[fayetnam]

Man Shaqs hall of fame ceremony is this weekend and I'm located in Mass two hours away, originally from 626(Duarte). Would be a site to see everyone there and AI and Yao being honored. It's 500 dollars but TAX deductible.

Saving up for 7 years for mambas.

NT lakeshow thread Summit?

Shoutsout to Duroc

 

[Lizakers]

Less than a month away from the first preseason game.....excited for this new era and new style of ball

 

[CP1708]

Interesting watch tonight.

I had game 4 vs Sonics in 98 on my DVR, my God do I have questions......

darthska mainly for you here.

Eddie Jones put in 32 this game. He was DAMN good. We win 3 titles with him and Shaq?

Reason I ask, God damn that team was loaded. Horry, Fox, Fisher were all young and fast and healthy. Horry was Dunkin on people, jumpin landin jumpin again like he was on springs, Nick Van Exel was cold, Elden Campbell, Corie Blount was awesome next to Shaq.

Van Exel/Fisher
Eddie
Fox
Horry/Blount
Shaq/Campbell

Only one missin? Baby Kobe. Van Exel, Kobe, Campbell, Blount came off the bench. Just savage depth. All prime.

Shaq was 25-26-27 in 97-99.

This game he put in 39-8-7-5. Even made his free throws.

But they didn't win ****

In fact, if memory serves, they lost 4-0 to Jazz, 4-1 to Jazz, and 4-0 to Spurs, correct?

Shaq based squad, with young studs all around him. Kobe came off the bench, played 23 minutes a night.

By 2000, they dealt Eddie, Nick, Campbell and Blount. And moved Kobe to starter. Added old vets like AC Green, Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Mitch Richmond......

Got Rice for 99-2000, but he didn't really fit, they let him go after title one.

All in all, from this game in 98, to 2001, they moved off of Van Exel, Eddie, Rice, Campbell, Blount.

And added drinking age Kobe.

I find this......interesting.

That's a lot of bodies bein replaced.

Could Shaq and Eddie have done that?

You'll recall, you believe another wing could do what Kobe did, but...for 3 years, Eddie couldn't, WITH Nick, Elden, younger/faster Shaq, etc.

I know Phil is an upgrade over Del, but Del wasn't Byron Scott. He could actually coach. They blew thru Portland/Seattle back then, but Utah/SA beat them 12-1 that 3 year stretch????? (Rambis had taken over for the 99 SA series)

Man, had Kobe been 20-21 in 97-98 with Eddie + Nick + Elden + Corie + younger Horry/Fox/Fisher trio, my God. He was the piece they needed, but he was just a teenager still.

I vaguely remember the teen Kobe, All Shaq led teams. I remember them EVISCERATING the Sonics, after Seattle won game one, LA blew their backs out the next 4. I remember thinking they were gonna face Michael. They were LOADED with talent. But they would go out meekly each year.

Eddie was nice, man. But when we switched him out, for the kid, we won 3 straight.

I'm more sure than ever, Kidd, Pierce, TMac, Vince, Ray, Grant Hill, or Eddie, they weren't gonna be enough. Just weren't gonna be.

If you ever spot it on NBATV, give it a watch. Great game. Payton was great too, but no one else helped him. Karl was useless as always.

 

[darthska]

Absolutely.

Take away Del, replace him with Phil... take away Elden and Blount, replace them with Grant and Mitch.

Man, that's scary good. Elden was decent, but had lapses of effort. Damn near the same eval for Blount.

The reason I say another guard could have done isn't because of the guard; it's Phil. And I'm not saying Phil could coach a top-50 like Shaq or Jordan to a championship even if they were paired with the likes of Mike Penberthy or Steve Kerr as a sidekick and an entire roster even worst than the sidekick. I'm saying Phil + a dominant guy = championship. For the first 3, 'dominant guy' was Shaq, and having Kobe is why we lost 1 game en route to one of those championships. Do I think we could have won with Eddie and Phil and a roster built around that?

*all in*

 

[moonman818]

Nah.