[:: LAKERS 2014 THREAD | POLL: Who Should Coach Next Year? ::]

[vindeezy]

Dont forget francisco garcia and his customary 5 or 6 triples.

 

[darthska]

Yes, Mike has never won. Understood.

Because Mike traded away Rajon Rondo, Loul Deng, Marcin Gortat, Rudy Fernandez and Nate Robinson, after letting Joe Johnson walk away for nothing.

Yes, Mike never won. I have no idea why he never could win.........................................................................





Phil Jackson is the GOAT, and he SURELY would have won titles if we gave away Horry, Fox, Glen Rice, Kukoc, Harper, H. Grant, Trevor Ariza, and Lamar Odom year after year after year. He could easily overcome that.

Good perspective guys.

When will you get it through your thick skull that COACHES HAVE A SAY IN THE ROSTER?

 

 

 

 

[sea manup]

Dont forget francisco garcia and his customary 5 or 6 triples.

and of course harden leaving nick young open 27 times and him going 3/27

 

[vindeezy]

Ill give pringles that...he made the most out of his situations in phoneix...but the players he had always catered to his philosophy even after stat got hurt/joe johnson bounced, etc.....not the other way around. And he had a prime nash, who arguably was the best PG in basketball. This squad...the way its constructed in particular last yr..it was just the incorrect hire no matter how u slice it. Even this yr with more wings, hes still starting both steves (1 almost 40 and the other 1 dimensional and too short/not good enough to start, let alone at the 2guard)..
The shawne williams starting PF experiment has unofficially ended..so thats a start..hopefully next the 2 estabans. Spare the kobe remarks...u can start swaggy at the 2 and x at the 3 or reverse with just 1 steve.

 

[CP1708]

Yes, Mike has never won. Understood.


Because Mike traded away Rajon Rondo, Loul Deng, Marcin Gortat, Rudy Fernandez and Nate Robinson, after letting Joe Johnson walk away for nothing.


Yes, Mike never won. I have no idea why he never could win.........................................................................






Phil Jackson is the GOAT, and he SURELY would have won titles if we gave away Horry, Fox, Glen Rice, Kukoc, Harper, H. Grant, Trevor Ariza, and Lamar Odom year after year after year. He could easily overcome that.


Good perspective guys.

When will you get it through your thick skull that COACHES HAVE A SAY IN THE ROSTER?

     

Ska........please be kidding.

Please, please be kidding.


Sarver SOLD those picks. Not trade away, SOLD. He pinches pennies, didn't want to pay rookies, etc. His fanbase LOATHES him.

Mike had zero say in draft picks being sold. You hopefully knew that and just teasin me.

 

[vindeezy]

and of course harden leaving nick young open 27 times and him going 3/27

It will be nice to have a harden vs poor mans harden matchup......lol.

Swaggy is gonna have to play like he did Tues, x like he did vs Flop, and Meeks like he did vs Den last yr (or at the pelicans).

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I would Hack-A-Dwight, not for an advantage in the game but to just embarrass him. Start Sacre, Kelly and Harris, have them hack a Dwight 18 times to begin the game. The pressure will get to him.

 

[darthska]

Dude, CP, I'm agreeing w/ you.

The reason we have the history we do is because of what we could have done.

I know Magic has 5 titles, but he COULD have 9, which is why he has a statue.

As much as Kobe accomplished, he COULD have been the ROTY, and 5-time FMVP, which is why I'm confident he'll have a statue someday.

Can't wait to see Nick the Quick and Eddie Jones enshrined in some kind of way. You know what they could have done my dude? 

I'm w/ you, dude. You and I are older Laker fans, and we know more than these younger cats that 'what could have been' has always been a crowning achievement for Laker fans. Since when have we just applauded actual achievements? Since... umm... since never! 

 

 

[grandtheftbike]

You and I are older Laker fans

 

[vindeezy]

I would Hack-A-Dwight, not for an advantage in the game but to just embarrass him. Start Sacre, Kelly and Harris, have them hack a Dwight 18 times to begin the game. The pressure will get to him.

Sacre will foul out in 10 mins..lmao. hack an asik. Hack a dwight. Trap a Lin?? Oh, nvm, its pringles...15 mins of defensive scheming. I dunno if they can squeeze that in.....

 

[CP1708]

BTW, I was wrong, Joe Johnson did walk, but they worked a sign and trade, for Boris Diaw. So, almost nothing. But to be factual, I was wrong about Johnson leaving for absolutely nothing.

After buying the Phoenix Suns, Sarver has received criticism from the media and fans[4] for his frugal approach to running the franchise. Particularly under scrutiny is his selling of numerous draft picks for cash, and his general aversion to going over the NBA's luxury tax, despite being in a position to strengthen his squad and do everything possible to go for an NBA championship during Steve Nash's (the Suns' 2 time NBA MVP point guard) prime years. In 2008, ESPN Sportswriter Bill Simmons wrote an article about the Suns franchise in which he criticized moves made by Sarver and his team.[5] In a June 25, 2011 article, Arizona Republic columnist Dan Bickley wrote that Sarver was "widely considered among the worst owners in sports." [6]

If you're playing the blame game, look at the front office/ownership mistakes from 2004 to 2007. Had the Suns made two different choices (just two!) and not been so concerned about the luxury tax, they could have given us six to eight years of wildly entertaining basketball and maybe even a dynasty. Collectively, the mistakes made by the Suns were staggering. Check out the last four years of Phoenix teams, season by season, and how they screwed up what should have been a historically good run.

2005 to properly refresh your memory about the Joe Johnson fiasco. That's right -- fiasco. Phoenix's relationship with Johnson deteriorated so badly that he directly asked Sarver not to match Atlanta's $70 million offer -- which he didn't -- leading to the devastating trade of Johnson for Boris Diaw and two future first-rounders.

They had just come within two wins of the NBA Finals and built an identity; now they were dealing a 24-year-old potential All-Star, the perfect swingman for their system, a deadly shooter who could even play backup point guard for them ... and only getting back a bench player and two future picks?

Here's what kills me about the Johnson trade: With Nash, Amare, Marion and Johnson, you're set for the rest of the decade. That's it. That's your core. That's your guarantee for 57-plus wins a year and a specific style that can work. Surround them with role players and veteran buyout guys and you're contending until Nash breaks down, and even then, you can just shift the offense over to Johnson as the main creator. HOW CAN YOU GIVE THAT GUY UP???? So what if he's insulted and doesn't want to come back? He'll get over it! You're paying him $14 million a year and he gets to play with Steve Nash! Arrrrrrrrgh.

Mistake No. 1: For financial reasons, they traded the No. 21 pick (Rajon Rondo) to Boston along with Brian Grant's contract (chopping $1.9 million from their 2007 payroll) for the rights to Cleveland's 2007 first-round pick. This was a double whammy because they acquired that Rondo pick two years before by giving up the No. 7 pick in the 2004 draft (for luxury tax reasons). So if you're scoring at home, they downgraded from "Luol Deng or Andre Iguodala in 2004" to "Rondo in 2006" to "selling the No. 24 pick in 2007 for cash" (we'll get to that in a second) ... which means that, effectively, they traded a No. 7 pick in a loaded draft for $4.9 million. Phoenix fans, you may now light yourselves on fire.

READ THAT AGAIN FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What makes that one even more painful: Instead of signing Richardson before the 2004-05 season to a six-year, $42.6 million deal, they could have drafted Deng or Igoudala that summer and paid one of them two-fifths as much as Richardson over that same time frame. One year later, they swapped Richardson and the No. 21 pick in 2005 for Kurt Thomas, who they dumped on Seattle last summer along with two more No. 1's just to get him off their cap. As astounding as this sounds, Bryan Colangelo's decision to sign Richardson instead of drafting Deng or Iguodala -- which was dumb at the time, by the way -- ended up costing them a whopping FOUR FIRST-ROUND PICKS! Would you rather have Richardson, or would you rather have the No. 7 pick in 2004, the No. 21 pick in 2005, and your first-rounders in 2008 and 2010? Hold on, this gets better. Your 2005 NBA Executive of the Year? That's right, Mr. Bryan Colangelo! I love the NBA.)

Mistake No. 2: They sold the No. 27 pick to Portland (that ended up being Sergio Rodriguez). What's confusing is that they traded/sold those No. 1s for luxury tax reasons, and yet ...



Mistake No. 3: Two weeks later, they signed Marcus Banks to a five-year, $24 million deal to back up Nash. Marcus Banks!?!?!? Can you think of a worse guy for NashBall? He can't shoot 3s, he's a career loser, he's never won in college or the pros, it's unclear whether he'd ever accept a reduced role behind a two-time MVP ... let's get him! Why not just draft Rondo at 21 (or Marcus Williams, or Kyle Lowry, or Jordan Farmar) and develop him as a backup for one-fourth the price of Banks? Why not draft Rodriguez at No. 27 and hope he pans out for one-fifth the money?

Mistake No. 1: Selling the No. 24 pick (Rudy Fernandez) for $3 million to Portland. Of everything Sarver inflicted on the Phoenix fans since 2004, this may have been the biggest slap in the face. You can't play the luxury tax card with Fernandez because he wasn't planning on joining the NBA until 2008 or 2009 at the earliest, so actually it would have been savvy if the Suns drafted him and stashed him in Europe for a year or two. Instead, Sarver basically announced to his fans, "Screw you, I'd rather have the $3 million, I'm taking the cash." Let the record show that, by all accounts, Fernandez would be a top-5 pick in this year's draft after lighting it up in Spain. Can you quantify the damage there? I say no.



Mistake No. 2: By dealing Thomas to Seattle along with two first-round picks (2008 and 2010), they saved about $8 million (plus another $8 million in luxury tax expenses) ... which would have been fine if Seattle didn't eventually waive him so he could get picked up by San Antonio, where he helped beat the Suns in the '08 playoffs and played crunch time in all five games. Even if it was a defensible trade financially, that's what happens when you cut off your nose to spite your face.

Year, by Year, by Year, mistakes made by the Owner and GM.

NOT, the head coach. Sure, he may have been made aware of what trades were about to be made, but he was not a part of the trades. His owner SUCKS.

So yeah, Mike has never won. Nor was he ever given all his toys to play with. So yes, hold that against him, please. It makes me happy, while you guys all sit here and rail against him and tell me how much he sucks as a coach, when he damn near could have won 2-3 titles with a small market team and just a halfway decent, not even good, DECENT owner, he would have been much much different.

But yeah, he has 0, so pound away at that rock.

 

[darthska]

Yes, Mike has never won. Understood.


Because Mike traded away Rajon Rondo, Loul Deng, Marcin Gortat, Rudy Fernandez and Nate Robinson, after letting Joe Johnson walk away for nothing.


Yes, Mike never won. I have no idea why he never could win.........................................................................






Phil Jackson is the GOAT, and he SURELY would have won titles if we gave away Horry, Fox, Glen Rice, Kukoc, Harper, H. Grant, Trevor Ariza, and Lamar Odom year after year after year. He could easily overcome that.


Good perspective guys.

When will you get it through your thick skull that COACHES HAVE A SAY IN THE ROSTER?

 

 

 

Ska........please be kidding.

Please, please be kidding.


Sarver SOLD those picks. Not trade away, SOLD. He pinches pennies, didn't want to pay rookies, etc. His fanbase LOATHES him.

Mike had zero say in draft picks being sold. You hopefully knew that and just teasin me.

Please tell me you started drinking early today. I'm fully confident that you're aware of the way things work in sports, being a sports fan and all.

If Mike adamantly insists "No, this Rondo kid, he's the real deal", he stays. You know that.

Oh, the pick that landed Rondo on ANOTHER team got sold? Same concept. If the coach insists that he work with that pick as opposed to getting whatever in return for that pick, yes, management can do whatever they want... but they favor the coach's opinion.

You're kidding with this "The coach has no say so at all" talk, right?

For a second, I thought you were trying to sell me on this idea that the coach just walks onto the court completely clueless about whoever's in uniform for the season, like he was absolutely no part of the decision making process.

I'm glad that's not what you're saying.

Because that's just plain dumb.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I would Hack-A-Dwight, not for an advantage in the game but to just embarrass him. Start Sacre, Kelly and Harris, have them hack a Dwight 18 times to begin the game. The pressure will get to him.

Sacre will foul out in 10 mins..lmao. hack an asik. Hack a dwight. Trap a Lin?? Oh, nvm, its pringles...15 mins of defensive scheming. I dunno if they can squeeze that in.....

D'Antoni's taken the whole thing with Dwight personally, so maybe he will

Imagine them getting into the penalty and sending Dwight to the line within the first five possessions. Dwight knows the TNT cameras will be doing close-ups on his face every time. It would be beautiful

 

[la kb24]

Too much quoting in here lol don't even feel like reading to catch up what's going on

 

[licensed to ball]

I can't handle the stubbornness anymore.
Never seen anything like it on the world wide web in my entire life.

We can make a million great points, but they're all ignored.
In return we have one million other points being shoved into our face... and if we don't agree, we have no clue what we're talking about.

Too much man. Too much.

Ska, the mic is yours...all yours.

 

[had pants]

with all this analytic assessment perhaps we should be the ones running the FO alongside Mitch

 

[darthska]

he damn near could have won 2-3 titles with a small market team and just a halfway decent, not even good, DECENT owner, he would have been much much different.

Lebron's 6 imaginary rings > Kobe's 5

 

[CP1708]

he damn near could have won 2-3 titles with a small market team and just a halfway decent, not even good, DECENT owner, he would have been much much different.

Lebron's 6 imaginary rings > Kobe's 5

It's right in front of your face. I posted the whole timeline for you.

2004 draft pick, Sold.
2005 draft pick(s) Sold.
2006 draft pick(s) SOLD
2007 pick, SOLD.

But Mike, could have stopped that? He could have told the owner not to SELL draft picks? Mike could have stopped that? He could have kept all those guys? Sarver would have listened to him?


Year after year after year. They sold Deng, Nate, Gortat, Rondo, Sergio, Rudy, sell, sell, sell, sell. Every pick.

Cheap *** owner

Mike could have stopped him from doing that. That, is your stance?


Yeah. I know. Mike never won a title. He does suck. I don't need to look at anything else. Like being in the conference Finals, after selling 4 straight year's worth of draft picks, and letting go of Joe Johnson at the age of 24. Mike just sucks. Nothing else counts.

 

[CP1708]

I can't handle the stubbornness anymore.
Never seen anything like it on the world wide web in my entire life.

We can make a million great points, but they're all ignored.
In return we have one million other points being shoved into our face... and if we don't agree, we have no clue what we're talking about.

Too much man. Too much.

Ska, the mic is yours...all yours.

Your main point, and Ska's is Mike never won.

Which is true.


And I am giving both of you the REASON Mike never won.

And you both ignore it.


What more can I do? It's all right there. In black and white. Move, after move, after move. The owner sold his picks. Cheap as they come.


So I keep asking you. If OUR owner, doesn't sell our draft picks, and signs free agents, and gives Mike all the players he can handle. Could he then get back to where he was with the Suns, only now, he'll get help each year from draft picks, etc. Because if the Suns owner would have let him keep a couple picks, the Suns woulda been in great shape, scratch that, even better shape than they already were. Winning 60+ games a year, even without an entire bench worth of first round draft picks.


Get this right now. If the Lakers got the #7 pick in the draft, and then sold it. Somebody is dying. Not angry, upset, or yelling, no, death. In the front office, a Laker FO person would die. Of not natural causes.
The Suns SOLD the #7 pick in the freaking draft. SOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When they already had a good team, that kid could have made them........? Suck, I don't know. But who the hell sells top 10 picks?

Then, follows up by selling MORE picks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike can't coach defense, but then again, Stat and Nash don't defend well anyways. What if, just what if, Mike gets his 110 points, and late in the 4th, he can sub in Rondo, Raja, Deng, Matrix, and Gortat to play defense the final 2 minutes to win the game? Wouldn't that be fun?

Mike can't coach defense...........because he has two TERRIBLE defensive players. But if he had his draft picks, who are very good defenders naturally, maybe, just maybe, they could help out late in games? Maybe?


Nawwwwwwww, I'm stupid. Mike sucks. He's never won. The end.

 

[vindeezy]

Yes, indeed..phoenix ownership is cheap. Which is why they aint matching bledsoe. Do it.

On a side note. This thread is comical. Too much knowledge.

 

[darthska]

My favorite part about your argument is how the loaded roster he had before those picks turned into those guys failed to net a championship and that doesn't matter, and the abysmal Knicks experience is completely ignored...

... because he could have had Rondo.

"OOOOOOOHHHHHH, since we don't know what he could have done with a jumper-less Rondo* and MARTIN GORTAT, then yeah, I'm on board!!"

Yeaaaahno. He had guys like Q, Stat, Nash, Marion, Joe... BEFORE teams were stacking up like they are right now, and didn't bring it home. Subtracting a few players (like Joe walking) but adding Rondo and Gortat = guaranteed chip?! I get 'You never know', but you're coming off like it would have been CRUISE CONTROL and we just don't see and we're stupid for not seeing it.

No.

Dude has had talent. Take, for example, last season.

"Oh, but the injuries. And the headcases. And his taost wasn't the right temperature."

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

He is who he is, he has done what he has done.

If Elway wouldn't have refused...

... but he did.

*and this is coming from a huge Rondo fan

 

[CP1708]

Like I said, after Nash gets them to 110 points, you need defense the final 2 minutes, Rondo couldn't have come in and helped?
Gortat couldn't have come in for Stat and played D for 2 minutes?
Deng couldn't have help defend the final 2 minutes?

Cuz he would have had all of them, behind his offensive guys.

But they wouldn't have helped. Nor Nate and Rudy as shooters off the bench. No help from them either.

 

[denni5themenace]

there really is no point in playing that what if game. you don't know how those guys would have turned out in different situations.

the facts are that he was close to winning a ship with the loaded suns team, but absolutely failed with any other roster (knicks and last years laker teams). sure he had things going against him last year (no training camp), but it can be argued the lakers should have been way more than what they were.

 

[sea manup]

From what I have seen from other teams and how they talk about their coaches, there are only 3-4 good coaches in the nba (doc rivers overrated though) and literally every other coach gets put on blast by fans and called trash. This leads to believe that dantoni even though people here think hes the worst coach ever is an average nba coach. Nothing more nothing less. Hes replaceable but doesnt need to be replaced, which is why im indifferent about our coaching situation and would rather focus on the roster changes over the next few years

 

[do work son]

I gotta agree with Cp. He's a little blunt, but I see where he's coming from. MDA can't control an owner stripping his resources. Yalls management has never been shy about getting who they want so it's plausible for MDA to recreate Phoenix in LA without having his resources stripped