JAN 09 Economic BLOODBATH

[oxo yzarc oxo]

i mean, the FED is a BANK, US currency has come from them since 1933.

so yes, they are the SOLE reason. they can manipulate the money flow and create/quell most of whats going on in the USA, and vicariously the world.

you cant say that bankers didnt lower rates to allow everyone to buy a house that they couldnt afford
you cant say that bankers didnt call in the debt of those who couldnt afford those houses
you cant say that bankers didnt participate in predatory lending
you cant say that bankers werent the reason we have a central bank charging us for every cent they make
you cant say that bankers didnt just ask the tax payer for $1,000,000,000,000

i could go on, but you get the point, i dont know you situation, but as far as i can tell it starts with the bank/er/s

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to controlthe issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people ofall property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored tothe people, to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson; Founding Father.

 

[lazyj10]

I see what you're saying, but you're still looking at "bankers" too closely because you're neglecting to accept there's much more tothis than just the Fed.

 

[pianoman52]

Originally Posted by Mangudai954

That's not exclusive information

lol thats what i was thinking

 

[nachobroadweezy]

OP is actually right. January is a hell month. Retail is in a coma.

 

[mich3565]

Originally Posted by devildog1776

It coming y'all... The job market is about to crumble after the holidays are over... I got xclusive info from some top bankers in my bank as well as another outside source... Just a warning of what to come

your a regular milton friedman

 

[throwedindagame]

This is obvious, companies that haven't started downsizing are freezing salaries. With-holding annual raises and performance based bonuses.
Having a degrees and company seniority means nothing. I've seen doctors, attorneys, engineers,executives etc. get the axe with the quickness. Nobody issafe.

 

[oxo yzarc oxo]

you have a good point, but yes, i am looking at it as cause and effect, and i cant blame a population for reacting as its supposed to.

such as after 9/11 i cant blame the ppl for wanting to kill obladin in order to feel safe.

this is manufactured, and i have to place the blame at the root, which is the FED at this juncture.

 

[lazyj10]

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrowerlevel too.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to hisparents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

 

[Mister Meaner]

Originally Posted by Fox5Kobe

we need to make a group on niketalk. we need to come together. get this money and start really getting this money. i aint gonna say this again

How would that work and how would we be getting this money? Do you propose we start a money lending type business? NT for the most part is broke

.

 

[optimusadl]

Do you actually think stacking paper is smart?

If the US dollar collapses those dollars will be toilet tissue.

When people are starving then I will get worried.

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

A certain percentage of children will never talk to a stranger no matter what he dangles in front of them.
Still, pedophiles are the ones to be blamed and not the children who do fall for their tricks. That is only because pedophiles operate from a position ofpower, not the children.

Some blame does fall on the average joe of course but only as far as being dumb/ignorant when it comes to finance. However, the bankers didn't try toeducate them either ...for a good reason.

 

[swizzc]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

I dont get why people are saying ITS BANKERS FAULT. There are many people/organizations to blame, not just banks/bankers.

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

A certain percentage of children will never talk to a stranger no matter what he dangles in front of them.

Still, pedophiles are the ones to be blamed and not the children who do fall for their tricks. That is only because pedophiles operate from a position of power, not the children.

Like I said originally, its circular. I'm by no means suggesting the banks didn't have their hand in it, but others are not innocent. A child lackscapacity and isn't considered lawfully of age to make decisions to a certain age. Hence the power, but greed blind all those involved. I mean, realestate prices can only go up, right?

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by swizzc

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

I dont get why people are saying ITS BANKERS FAULT. There are many people/organizations to blame, not just banks/bankers.

..because the central bankers are at the top guiding monetary policy.
They are the ones who have the power to create bubbles.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

A certain percentage of children will never talk to a stranger no matter what he dangles in front of them.

Still, pedophiles are the ones to be blamed and not the children who do fall for their tricks. That is only because pedophiles operate from a position of power, not the children.

Like I said originally, its circular. I'm by no means suggesting the banks didn't have their hand in it, but others are not innocent. A child lacks capacity and isn't considered lawfully of age to make decisions to a certain age. Hence the power, but greed blind all those involved. I mean, real estate prices can only go up, right?

Many Americans lack the capacity for financial analysis. It wasn't so much greed as it was ignorance.

 

[moneymike25]

Get Gold dont save to much money. Hide it in the walls of your house or something.

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

A certain percentage of children will never talk to a stranger no matter what he dangles in front of them.
Still, pedophiles are the ones to be blamed and not the children who do fall for their tricks. That is only because pedophiles operate from a position of power, not the children.

Some blame does fall on the average joe of course but only as far as being dumb/ignorant when it comes to finance. However, the bankers didn't try to educate them either ...for a good reason.

Some did...but why is it their responsibility? And you cannot say just for being"dumb/ignorant" in finance. How about greedy and careless? How about not understanding the risk. If I wanted to go dump $10,000 into a fallingstock, do you think a stock broker is going to help me? Of course not. They'll happily execute the trade.

The real estate industry as a whole (from lenders, to realtors, to everyone in between) is as bad as our currency banking system.

 

[swizzc]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

A certain percentage of children will never talk to a stranger no matter what he dangles in front of them.
Still, pedophiles are the ones to be blamed and not the children who do fall for their tricks. That is only because pedophiles operate from a position of power, not the children.

Some blame does fall on the average joe of course but only as far as being dumb/ignorant when it comes to finance. However, the bankers didn't try to educate them either ...for a good reason.

Some did...but why is it their responsibility? And you cannot say just for being "dumb/ignorant" in finance. How about greedy and careless? How about not understanding the risk. If I wanted to go dump $10,000 into a falling stock, do you think a stock broker is going to help me? Of course not. They'll happily execute the trade.

The real estate industry as a whole (from lenders, to realtors, to everyone in between) is as bad as our currency banking system.

couldn't agree with you more

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

A certain percentage of children will never talk to a stranger no matter what he dangles in front of them.

Still, pedophiles are the ones to be blamed and not the children who do fall for their tricks. That is only because pedophiles operate from a position of power, not the children.

Like I said originally, its circular. I'm by no means suggesting the banks didn't have their hand in it, but others are not innocent. A child lacks capacity and isn't considered lawfully of age to make decisions to a certain age. Hence the power, but greed blind all those involved. I mean, real estate prices can only go up, right?

Many Americans lack the capacity for financial analysis. It wasn't so much greed as it was ignorance.

Agreed to a certain extent. However in the SF Bay Area, it was more greed than it was anything else. It was more of "house prices are onlygoing to keep going up", and "this is my 4th house", type. I'm not stating that there were not regular people who just wanted a home tolive in who got taken advantage of, because that did happen, but its not as common as the media makes it out to be.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

Originally Posted by LazyJ10

You can't blame a population for its own greed?

That's the problem with this country, in some regards. Sense of self entitlement with a side of disillusion.

When did people stop to think they could afford a 1.3m dollar home on $77,000 before tax? There was bad lending, but there was certainly fault at the borrower level too.

I don't remember who made this analogy but it's a good one.

When a pedophile entices a child with candy to come into his car, who's at fault?
The pedophile (being the more sophisticated of the two) for dangling something in a front of a child that the child wants or the child for not listening to his parents about 'talking to strangers' or both?

Surely, there's a comparison to be made...

The difference is called, due diligence. I don't know about you, but I don't sign my name to anything I don't understand.

A certain percentage of children will never talk to a stranger no matter what he dangles in front of them.
Still, pedophiles are the ones to be blamed and not the children who do fall for their tricks. That is only because pedophiles operate from a position of power, not the children.

Some blame does fall on the average joe of course but only as far as being dumb/ignorant when it comes to finance. However, the bankers didn't try to educate them either ...for a good reason.

Some did...but why is it their responsibility? And you cannot say just for being "dumb/ignorant" in finance. How about greedy and careless? How about not understanding the risk. If I wanted to go dump $10,000 into a falling stock, do you think a stock broker is going to help me? Of course not. They'll happily execute the trade.

The real estate industry as a whole (from lenders, to realtors, to everyone in between) is as bad as our currency banking system.

THe dollar amount of mortgage loans in default was $600-$800b. If you want to blame 'greedy Americans' than blame them for that amount.

However the Fed has pumped (in various ways) around $8.4 trillion. So if you want to get technical the banks are responsible for around $7.6 trillion of that.


It was the banks that started securitizing assets and dealing with CDO's and swaps. It wasn't the average Joe, was it?
Did the average Joe create a 30+ trillion derivative market? Did the average Joe securitze garbage mortgages and pass them off to others just so he could lendmore money for more bad loans, securitize those, and pass them on again.

Finally, the Central Bank's mandate is economic stability. Loose monetary policy for years on end does not bode well for economic stability. Many peopleraised questions regarding Greenspan's loose policies but they were shouted. Now, Greenspan says, "Oops, I'm sorry. My entire ideology is flawed...sorry for that one, again." Flawed? #@%%%!@+. They're no idiots at the Central Bank. They knew what they were doing.

 

[jc08]

Originally Posted by oXo yzarc oXo

^^^ bankers, you all know they are the reason for the "crash" were experiencing now.

the dollar is going to collapse soon, !!+# a job. i dont want a unified currency (US/Can/Mex) ... which is whats coming, and the ppl will want it, which is the sad part.

!!+# bankers, we shouldn't have a central bank charging interest to print money.

and you all should probably listen to him, cuz even without his information if you can follow the trend of job losses over the past year, its only accelerating, this is a manufactured beast, easily contained. but the ppl on the bottom cant see the whole picture, cuz that doesnt matter, what matters to them is their personal position. so the reaction is one out of a here and now.

those dollars you have in the bank are gonna be worthless in 18 months, the Euro is collapsing, UK has a debt that is greater than their GDP.

my suggestion which would save the dollar (if they wanted to ...) would be to start increasing the primary interest rate jack that %%$$ up to 7-8% over the next 18 months (itll hurt like getting +*@%%$ raw by a baseball bat covered in razorwire) but itll be a lot better for the long term (10-15+) years and beyond. what were doing now, is gonna slow growth to a halt, thats not what we want (as a nation!). what were getting is a fiscal collapse precipitating on the order of balancing the global books.

no one realizes that with houses as cheap as they are, soon enough ppl will start buying them, what needed to happen was a normative correction to where the prices were real, vs the imaginary prices that they had inflated to. now ppl cant afford them and lose them and their jobs, and boom now what, now theres no growth and no ppl can get jobs to replace their income.

everyone below a cutoff point of information is FUCT!!!

grab your gold/copper.

1) Lowering the interest rate is the right thing to do to stimulate growth. There is also really little or no correlation between increases in interest ratesand increases in exchange rates in the short term, and America cannot wait another 3-5 years for the interest rate effect to kick in. Remember the correlationbetween interest rates and exchange rates is RELATIVE. Meaning if every other country in the world is lowering interest rates than lowering the interest ratewill not have as big as an effect.

2)I agree house prices will drop further but the "bottom" may be a lot closer then we think in my opinion because the real estate market like thestock market is forward thinking albeit being a lot less liquid. This represents an interesting opportunity for real estate speculators who are looking to buyhouses to rent to generate cash flow. There is a statistic that says that 8 million homes will be in foreclosure by the end of next year I believe, and thosepeople that occupied those homes need somewhere to live no matter what. There are only two options: rent or buy.

3)My personal opinion. Seeing as how the government has stakes or interests in almost all banks, I think their next step is to require these banks to refinancetheir original loans to make them more manageable. Also, it costs banks roughly $40,000 to foreclose a home. I think they would rather take a writedown ontheir balance sheets rather than a direct hit to their income statement.

I am an optimist, but I would be ignorant beyond belief if said I don't think there is a very real possibility that USA and the world will be in majortrouble for the next 3-5 years. The next thing to watch out for, is the next wave of Alt-A and Option ARM loans that are going to reset early next year with alarge proportion of them resetting in mid-2009/2010. This won't be as big of a problem IF interest rates fall for bank loans to consumers. This market isvalued at $1.6 trillion in comparison to the $1 trillion subprime mortgage market.

The best bet for people to protect themselves is to start investing in things of value like gold and silver or blue chip companies like JNJ, WMT, AGU, and CAT.Let's keep this discussion going NT.

 

[lazyj10]

Yeah, but if you want to get technical....its not like mortgage backed securities were new in the new millennium. One can argue, they were werecreated by average joe's working for Salomon Brothers in the 80's. Prior to the huge boom of ivy leaugers. They were obviously exploited by the typesof people you've mentioned (be it here, or previously).

What you just described though, is what I've been hinting at...its circular. Period. Fault can be split up in tranches much like the sub-prime"securities". I don't know if I haven't gotten this across well, mainly because I try and be quick since I'm at work, but all I'msaying is, one cannot point a finger at the next one and say they were exempt. It's great when everyone is getting rich right? But when they're the oneleft holding the bag, all of a sudden they were a "victim". Its to that I say, $%%#%.

Not every company needed a "lending" arm. H&R Block (Option 1), I see you!

Its funny, but throughout all of this, we still basically are on the same page....I definitely see what you're saying, and have been saying. I justdon't like hearing that my next door neighbor isn't a putz because he thought somehow his condo would be worth $450k and he speculated (wrongly).

 

[oxo yzarc oxo]

^ thank you, for that. its not solely the bank/er/s ... but i cannot place blame on the economy on ppl who have little influence on the fiscal poilicies of acountry. growth/spending but thats a result of the way things are setup.

creating loans from debt.