Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[moderndarwin]

The point being that for some reason British and Americans had warfare superiority and cooperation on their side. It doesn’t matter the reasoning or the justification. That’s the underpinning fact here - that this is not something new - this is what has always happened throughout all of history.

The Palestinian side had decades to come up with a better approach either through collaboration with other countries or through internal means before Israel became the superpower it is. They didn’t and now they are stuck. It’s a sad state of affairs. Like watching kids with sticks fight adult with guns. At some point they have to move on from this land is ours mentality there is no shared recourse here.

The only hope is a two state solution and with Hamas constantly stating they want to take Israel off the map there’s really nothing to make Israel stop doing what every country has done - continue taking over land and killing people in the pursuit of security and ownership.

 

[me love nutella]

"BuT KhAmAs..."

 

[me love nutella]

The Palestinian side had decades to come up with a better approach either through collaboration with other countries or through internal means before Israel became the superpower it is. They didn’t and now they are stuck. It’s a sad state of affairs. Like watching kids with sticks fight adult with guns. At some point they have to move on from this land is ours mentality there is no shared recourse here.

The only hope is a two state solution and with Hamas constantly stating they want to take Israel off the map there’s really nothing to make Israel stop doing what every country has done - continue taking over land and killing people in the pursuit of security and ownership.

What is a better approach? It has been tried, every avenue has been attempted and they have done what Israel asked for many times only for Israel to state they want it on their own terms and provide crappy proposals that do not provide Palestinians a viable functional sovereign statehood.

I think some of you do not get it, the roots of this is the ideology of Zionism that was literally founded on the basis of taking the land from its Arab natives, to have it governed by Jewish supremacy, and the rest referred to as non-Jews that would have NO political rights. That was the entire premise and basis of it and it drives this whole situation/conflict. For Pete's sake, it uses some ideology from a religious text book as Promised Land. How much more supremacist can you get?

I find it SO odd it is ingrained in the Western narrative that it is Palestinians and their extremism, when literally that is Israel's establishment from secular Jewish founders that used fascism to take it from the Arabs. Israel's extremism is much more powerful and deadlier, and has a tight noose on Palestinians.

Israel and the U.S. are rogue states, they do not uphold 'democracy' as it is supposed to its optimal ideals.

Ya'll are focused on angry rhetorics from Hamas of wiping Israel off the map, when literally that is what Israel has done from the beginning to Palestinians, and even to go as far as attempting to erase their identity and culture. It is the other way around because why is the blame and the onus on the oppressed to make it work when they have the foot on their necks by the oppressor?

 

[getback]

 

[me love nutella]

This is something that if you are not indigenous to your land, you will not understand.

 

[me love nutella]

Imagine going through 75 years of ethnic cleansing, a genocide, and the Nakba twice in your lifetime:

 

[moderndarwin]

What is a better approach? It has been tried, every avenue has been attempted and they have done what Israel asked for many times only for Israel to state they want it on their own terms and provide crappy proposals that do not provide Palestinians a viable functional sovereign statehood.

I think some of you do not get it, the roots of this is the ideology of Zionism that was literally founded on the basis of taking the land from its Arab natives, to have it governed by Jewish supremacy, and the rest referred to as non-Jews that would have NO political rights. That was the entire premise and basis of it and it drives this whole situation/conflict. For Pete's sake, it uses some ideology from a religious text book as Promised Land. How much more supremacist can you get?

I find it SO odd it is ingrained in the Western narrative that it is Palestinians and their extremism, when literally that is Israel's establishment from secular Jewish founders that used fascism to take it from the Arabs. Israel's extremism is much more powerful and deadlier, and has a tight noose on Palestinians.

Israel and the U.S. are rogue states, they do not uphold 'democracy' as it is supposed to its optimal ideals.

Ya'll are focused on angry rhetorics from Hamas of wiping Israel off the map, when literally that is what Israel has done from the beginning to Palestinians, and even to go as far as attempting to erase their identity and culture. It is the other way around because why is the blame and the onus on the oppressed to make it work when they have the foot on their necks by the oppressor?

i think you’re misinterpreting what i’m saying. i’m not speaking on moral right or wrong. I’m saying military superiority is what decides thing and always has historically. Palestinians unfortunately are on the losing end of the stick here. I find it disingenuous to paint this as anything else at this point. At some point there has to be a sense of realism that this land isn’t ours anymore. Same as his native americans got displaced by a superior military. Same as whoever got killed and displaced during Roman era or Khan era. The difference being this is modern era so there’s a lot of people thinking fairness somehow should impact the results.

When in history has the more advanced dominant military force ever kindly done anything to their conquests. It’s not human nature. It’s a bend the knee or die situation.

 

[me love nutella]

i think you’re misinterpreting what i’m saying. i’m not speaking on moral right or wrong. I’m saying military superiority is what decides thing and always has historically. Palestinians unfortunately are on the losing end of the stick here. I find it disingenuous to paint this as anything else at this point. At some point there has to be a sense of realism that this land isn’t ours anymore. Same as his native americans got displaced by a superior military. Same as whoever got killed and displaced during Roman era or Khan era. The difference being this is modern era so there’s a lot of people thinking fairness somehow should impact the results.

When in history has the more advanced dominant military force ever kindly done anything to their conquests. It’s not human nature. It’s a bend the knee or die situation.

So your point is that if your land has been taken over and occupied through wars, then just give it up? Ya, that was throughout the colonial times, until decolonization and international law came into place to denounce this and provide the right of return to refugees.

So, if we take your mindset, then nation states that are supposed to uphold international law can just go left and right to take over lands and ethnic cleanse them, and so let the oppressed just give it up although it has been hundreds of years, and some still are there on that land?

The Palestinians chose no agreement by Israel and the U.S. as it did not meet the bare minimum supported by international law and most nations of the world. The Palestinians asked for a state on the pre-1967 lines with minor, equivalent land swaps that would allow Israel to annex some settlements. The Palestinian capital would be in East Jerusalem, with FULL sovereignty of its territories as well as autonomy over the holy site known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary or al-Aqsa mosque compound, and overland contiguity with the rest of the Palestinian state. Israel would withdraw its forces from the West Bank and release Palestinian prisoners. And Palestinian refugees would be offered compensation, a right to return not to their homes but to their homeland in the State of Palestine, acknowledgment of Israel’s partial responsibility for the refugee problem, and, on a scale that would not perceptibly change Israel’s demography, a return of some refugees to their pre-1948 lands and homes.

Although years of violence and repression have led Palestinians to make some small concessions that chipped away at this compromise, they have not fundamentally abandoned it. No matter what a Hamas speaker says on TV during this war, in their 2017 Charter, it is penned they agreed to a two state solution.

Israel, for its part, has consistently opted for stalemate rather than the sort of agreement outlined above. The reason is obvious because what the Palestinians want in the deals costs much higher than the cost of making no deal. The damages Israel would risk incurring through such an accord are massive. They include perhaps the greatest political upheaval in their country’s history.

I did not even get into over 300 UN resolutions Israel and its allies have shot down in the 75 years of occupation.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

If this was a war on the battlefield between men and armies, I wouldn’t be so focused.

However, the fact that Israel is knowingly and consistently killing women and children is wrong, evil, and against everything that flag of the Star of David should represent.

Men go to war. Land and resources are lost in war. It’s in our nature. I can accept it. Russia vs Ukraine is war for land and resources. This will always be a part of life.

What Israel is doing is demonic. To kill the women and children is to erase a people’s future. They’re doing so out of fear, and understanding, that the youth will grow and want revenge for their ancestors.

Also, Israel is only copying the takeover blueprint set by Europeans when they came to America. They used the Bible to get what they wanted and Israel is hiding behind the scriptures to do as they please against anyone that stands up to them.

Before you refer to Hamas as terrorists after over 75 years of Jewish occupancy and attacks over THEIR land, remember what Americans did to the Native Americans, Mexicans, and African Americans in this country when their goal was the same. Land, resources, and superiority.

The British gave the permission to relocate to America and to Palestine. Neither land was rightfully theirs. Imagine that.

With posts likes...Is anyone surprised Israelis think criticism is fuled by anti semitism?

 

[moe200069]

With posts likes...Is anyone surprised Israelis think criticism is fuled by anti semitism?

i'm failing to see what in LD7's post can be misconstrued as antisemitism.

 

[me love nutella]

i'm failing to see what in LD7's post can be misconstrued as antisemitism.

Same, where is the antisemitism.

Replace everything he said on Iran for example, so would that be considered Islamophobic?

 

[moderndarwin]

So your point is that if your land has been taken over and occupied through wars, then just give it up? Ya, that was throughout the colonial times, until decolonization and international law came into place to denounce this and provide the right of return to refugees.

So, if we take your mindset, then nation states that are supposed to uphold international law can just go left and right to take over lands and ethnic cleanse them, and so let the oppressed just give it up although it has been hundreds of years, and some still are there on that land?

The Palestinians chose no agreement by Israel and the U.S. as it did not meet the bare minimum supported by international law and most nations of the world. The Palestinians asked for a state on the pre-1967 lines with minor, equivalent land swaps that would allow Israel to annex some settlements. The Palestinian capital would be in East Jerusalem, with FULL sovereignty of its territories as well as autonomy over the holy site known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary or al-Aqsa mosque compound, and overland contiguity with the rest of the Palestinian state. Israel would withdraw its forces from the West Bank and release Palestinian prisoners. And Palestinian refugees would be offered compensation, a right to return not to their homes but to their homeland in the State of Palestine, acknowledgment of Israel’s partial responsibility for the refugee problem, and, on a scale that would not perceptibly change Israel’s demography, a return of some refugees to their pre-1948 lands and homes.

Although years of violence and repression have led Palestinians to make some small concessions that chipped away at this compromise, they have not fundamentally abandoned it. No matter what a Hamas speaker says on TV during this war, in their 2017 Charter, it is penned they agreed to a two state solution.

Israel, for its part, has consistently opted for stalemate rather than the sort of agreement outlined above. The reason is obvious because what the Palestinians want in the deals costs much higher than the cost of making no deal. The damages Israel would risk incurring through such an accord are massive. They include perhaps the greatest political upheaval in their country’s history.

I did not even get into over 300 UN resolutions Israel and its allies have shot down in the 75 years of occupation.

sorry man lifes not fair and everything you wrote is based on some expectation of fairness. again there’s plenty of global conflicts going on and rarely do people ever follow rules. And unless other countries are willing to actually go in all the pseudo condemnations in public forums don’t do anything. money and power drives the world. and the US has learned it just get painted as the bad guy out there so why would it ever engage more than it absolutely has to for either power or money reasons.

 

[me love nutella]

sorry man lifes not fair and everything you wrote is based on some expectation of fairness. again there’s plenty of global conflicts going on and rarely do people ever follow rules. And unless other countries are willing to actually go in all the pseudo condemnations in public forums don’t do anything. money and power drives the world. and the US has learned it just get painted as the bad guy out there so why would it ever engage more than it absolutely has to for either power or money reasons.

Ok, got what you're saying.

Ya, I know it'll just happen and the most powerful are the victors.

But, what this showed is the West and Israel that spout democracy and human rights are as rogue and futile in their empty veil of being the good guys.

Now, in the consciousness of our generation and the younger ones, there is a major shift out here in the West in seeing what the populations around the world experience by western imperialism.

So what does this mean? There's a whole slew of a new generation ready to pop off and fight the oppressive systems and continue to resist.

 

[DLF]

So 800 Israeli soldiers 200 Hamas soldiers. 200 civilians. Prob 70% of those 200 killed by Israeli cross fire. 1 baby (not beheaded). No rape.

 

[IATT]

 

[me love nutella]

This guy never misses:


Israel is literally the first ever to commit a genocide and Abu Ghraib on steroids viewed live on social media streams and then claim they're the victims.

 

[computersputin]

 

[DripNick]

 

[htg designs]

"BuT KhAmAs..."

I wanted to look this up cus it didnt quote what he said...

This article is from 2016 (so not a "new" chief at
this point). Its about comments he posted online in 2012. He issued clarification in 2012 and when it came up again in 2016 during his nomination (and denounces rape in war and peace times and say he was misinterpreted).

The comments are still online and its even more easily be interpreted as an explaination of why rapes were allegedly allowed in wars even though forbidden. (He was literally asked this. He replied essentially saying, this is why- but he didnt say it was okay or was in agreement with this). This social media post is very missleading.

Spoiler

Goya means gentiles

 

[ahat]

I find it hilarious that YOU of all people posted this video

 

[DaKidFromHaiti]

I wanted to look this up cus it didnt quote what he said...

This article is from 2016 (so not a "new" chief at
this point). Its about comments he posted online in 2012. He issued clarification in 2012 and when it came up again in 2016 during his nomination (and denounces rape in war and peace times and say he was misinterpreted).

The comments are still online and its even more easily be interpreted as an explaination of why rapes were allegedly allowed in wars even though forbidden. (He was literally asked this. He replied essentially saying, this is why- but he didnt say it was okay or was in agreement with this). This social media post is very missleading.

Spoiler

Goya means gentiles

People don’t double check **** anymore. See a post, get enraged and then just run with it.

 

[ahat]

Ex-UN official: Palestine-Israel two-state solution âa jokeâ at UN

Craig Mokhiber criticises the UN’s inaction on the ‘genocide’ in Gaza and labels Oslo Accords a mockery within the UN.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[degenerate423]

 

[me love nutella]

I wanted to look this up cus it didnt quote what he said...

This article is from 2016 (so not a "new" chief at
this point). Its about comments he posted online in 2012. He issued clarification in 2012 and when it came up again in 2016 during his nomination (and denounces rape in war and peace times and say he was misinterpreted).

The comments are still online and its even more easily be interpreted as an explaination of why rapes were allegedly allowed in wars even though forbidden. (He was literally asked this. He replied essentially saying, this is why- but he didnt say it was okay or was in agreement with this). This social media post is very missleading.

Spoiler

Goya means gentiles

I also read it as he was saying that there's conditions to war that allow these things.

After the outrage, he later put put a retraction that it's not for modern times. But it's suspect because he believes in hard core Torah laws that are outdated in modern times, so that's why some said that's what he meant in his original statement as well.

You might think and take his retraction as clarification, but leftist and feminist Israeli groups didnt buy it. They are the ones who took his original response as is and even with the retraction said he is unfit to be the rabbi for the military.

 

[IATT]