Is Peyton Manning the most overrated qb of all time?

[cedric ceballos]

Aside from the Patriots win in the AFC title game (that was a helluva win by the way, arguably his signature game)

They beat a KC team at home who got in off of tiebreakers and was just happy to be there.

A ravens team that while they had a good defense was more the product of a weak schedule that they rode to a 13-3 record. Steve McNair was past his prime at that point.

Given what happened the next two playoffs to lesser chargers teams against colts teams that were around the same talent wise, ill argue that San Diego would've smoked them in the afc title game that year had they not lost to New England, and I think you can make a good argument for that. San Diego had the colts number from 05-10.

Regarding the playoffs, prior to this past playoff run, aside from the 06 afc title game against New England, none of those teams/qb's they beat were really impressive. Jake Plummer and broncos teams that had no chance twice, Trent green twice, with a chiefs team that had no defense and later a chiefs team that had no offense, A ravens team with a past his prime Steve McNair where they only scored field goals that game, arguably the worst qb other then the 85 patriots qb's in Super Bowl xx in Rex grossman and that bears team, A 2nd year joe flacco and an overmatched 9-7 ravens team, and a jets team with rookie mark Sanchez, that actually had a decent chance to beat Indy before their ground and pound game got shut down when shonn green got injured.

I won't argue anyone putting him in their top 5, but that playoff track record should be considered when discussing him.

On a side note, perhaps that whole resting players the last few weeks stuff the colts did hindered him and that offense. They rested their guys week 17 in 99, weeks 16 and 17 in 05, and week 17 in 07 and were one and done with home losses after the bye each year. Especially in 05 they looked rusty during that game against Pittsburgh as well as the San Diego game in 07. On the flip side, when they played their guys week 17 in the 06 season to clinch the 3 seed, they seemed to get into a groove when the playoffs started.

 

[cedric ceballos]

I just now seen your post dmx, I was writing the same thing when you posted that.

 

[dmxfury]

Ha nice

 

[cedric ceballos]

And a huge reason they lost to Pitt in 05 was rust. He and the team looked so off and slow to start the first quarter and a half. Pitt grabbed the lead and never relinquished. Tony and his resting of players was a huge mistake IMO all those years

It wasn't just dungy. Jim mora did it in 99. They were on like a 10 game win streak going into week 17, rested their guys, got smoked by buffalo and lost to the titans at home 2 weeks later.

Jim Caldwell did it in 09, when they were 30 minutes away from being 15-0. Almost came back to haunt them when they were losing 17-6 to the jets in the afc title game a few minutes before halftime.

 

[dmxfury]

So afraid of injury to a QB that's as durable as they come

 

[skurrtskurrt29]

Not trying to nitpick but I don't know if rust can be used as an excuse. Not saying it isn't a contributing factor, but I think it discredits what that Steelers defense did to Manning after getting their ***** handed to them earlier in the season. Nobody expected Pittsburgh to win that game, and they went out and surprised the hell out of everybody by dominating the Colts.

 

[tripda6]

Not sure how overrated you can be when you're cemented in the top 5 all time, more like top 3...

However, some of those piss poor playoff performances can't be overlooked.

This discussion would be A LOT more interesting had the Pats not blown that lead in the 06 AFCCG

 

[maldonado]

at overrated..

 

[dmxfury]

Not trying to nitpick but I don't know if rust can be used as an excuse. Not saying it isn't a contributing factor, but I think it discredits what that Steelers defense did to Manning after getting their ***** handed to them earlier in the season. Nobody expected Pittsburgh to win that game, and they went out and surprised the hell out of everybody by dominating the Colts.

No doubt I was lucky enough to be there live. LeBeau's finest hour. Porter on a mission off the edge, dude couldn't be stopped. But Peyton definitely missed throws early and heated up as the game progressed. Then again if Ben doesn't hurt his arm I think Pitt puts up more points and it wasn't almost all for not with the botched call, Bettis fumble, tackle II and FG attempt

 

[jumpmanpro97]

I don't know if overrated is the word to use.   if he wins another one, it will help erase the one blotch on his legacy though.    i know it's hard to win a super bowl and all, but even if he wins another one, i'll probably still think he should've won another during his indy years considering some of the years where they were the 1 seed or considered a favorite and were one and done. like I said, it's not all his fault, but still to this day, I look back at a season like the 05 season and be like how in the hell did they lose that game to the steelers at home,  same with the game they lost at home to san diego in 07 where LT and Rivers missed a good chunk of the 2nd half of the game, if I recall, San Diegos defense shut the passing game down that 4th quarter.  That potential AFC title game between 13-3 defending champs Indy and undefeated New England would've been epic that season.   

i've always gave him his props though, i think he's a stand up guy and a top 10 qb of all time, arguably closer to top 5.  he's still playing at a high level and I doubt that touchdown record gets broken anytime soon, arguably never, if he plays another few seasons and gets to 600.

i made this thread right after the super bowl though if i recall correctly though, when for 2 weeks straight all we heard about was "Peyton Mannings legacy"  and how "Peyton Manning was going to torch this elite Seahawks defense" then boom, 43-8 happened, and people tried to deflect and make it sound like that Seahawks defense was the 2nd coming of the 2000 ravens as if the 49ers and saints both didn't go into Seattle and play close well fought games against that same Seahawks team. 

like i've said, i've eased up on the overrated talk a bit, and gained a bit more appreciation for everything he's accomplished, but i'm not going to pretend as if the elephant in the room known as Peyton Manning in the playoffs is nonexistent either. 

so would Jerry West in basketball be over rated? He lost so many times to the Celtics in the finals and only won 1 title.

 

[polosanddunks]

This man Cedric Ceballos knows what he is talking about. Peyton is my favorite player of all time but this is all true....

If your the best you gotta shut **** down. A lot of times Peyton didn't. Even in that recent Superbowl my man could of probably solidified being the best going up against the #1 defense and he just added another horrible defeat in the biggest game to his resume.

That loss hurt more than the one against the Saints which he could of solidified himself as well with the "what if they didn't rest their players they would of been undefeated" but no my dude is out here throwing pick 6s in crunch time in the Superbowl.

Peyton should have 4-5 rings to be honest. You see his squads he has had in Indy and #1 seeds. Even in Denver which is even MORE stacked on offense and defense now (hats off to Elway because this guy is basically forcing Peyton's hands to go out on top with chips and Peyton keeps ruining it). I mean look at that squad right now. **** is scary so what excuses can he have this time...

I cant be mad at people saying he is overrated and that he's lucky he even has one chip against a weak bears team and against Rex...Grossman.

Peyton |I

 

[dmxfury]

4-5 rings?! Only 2 have four and they had some of the greatest, if not THE greatest teams ever with them! Not to mention in the pre free agent days. Those expectations are crazy high

Saints SB was bad, this last one was an abomination on all fronts

 

[dland24]

 

Your boy isn't far off.  He is much closer to being correct than the damn OP.

Please explain.

Peyton Manning is closer to the best QB of all time than the most overrated QB of all time.  Period.  No elaboration necessary.

 

[cedric ceballos]

Peyton Manning is closer to the best QB of all time than the most overrated QB of all time.  Period.  No elaboration necessary.

That's pure opinion that your trying to pass off as fact. Saying "no elaboration necessary" is a deflection tactic.

You may not like what I say about Peyton but I make valid points to back my argument.

All I'm hearing here is, "he's closer to the best then overrated because I say so, I don't need to explain".

 

[dland24]

That's pure opinion that your trying to pass off as fact. Saying "no elaboration necessary" is a deflection tactic.

You may not like what I say about Peyton but I make valid points to back my argument.

All I'm hearing here is, "he's closer to the best then overrated because I say so, I don't need to explain".

If you want to play the "thats pure opinion" card, I will do the same.  You say you make  "valid points."  Well sir.....that TOO is nothing more than pure opinion. 

I think he is showing the inaccuracy of the thread title (just my guess)

Bingo.

 

[dmxfury]

I was going to just let you guys hash it out

 

[jjs07]

A lot of people hold Joe Montana in such high-regard, and in some cases, the best ever to play, due to his success in the playoffs. Why is this standard applicable for SOME players, but people get very defensive if anything is said to the contrary involving Manning?

Is he overrated? Hell no! Easily a top-5 QB to play the game....however, as I mentioned in another thread, QBs are held to a much different standard than other players. While winning a SB is obviously a team effort, wins/losses, glory/flameout do fall on the shoulders of whoever is under center. Especially if they are highly decorated.

 

[cedric ceballos]

How is it opinion? I bring up games that actually happened, point out what actually happened. Me saying he's overrated is opinion and holds just as much weight as what your trying to say. However, me bringing up his playoff track record and providing games where I can look at his stats or look at a point in the game where he had a key turnover is bringing up facts, not opinion.

Only thing I would change, which I will do is change the thread title to "Is Peyton Manning overrated" which an argument can be made for.

If it makes you happy, ill say most overrated of all time was a reach that came in the aftermath of a Super Bowl that was Super Bowl 24 or 27 blowout type bad.

 

[darthska]

I wonder how we would be talking about Manning if he had Calvin Johnson for nearly his entire career, or Fitzgerald.

And, his whole career with Marshall Faulk.

Yes, I know he had Marvin Harrison, and had Faulk for a few seasons. But Marvin is no Calvin, and I'm just wondering what we would be saying.

I know, I know, another 'If.' 

 

[dland24]

Only thing I would change, which I will do is change the thread title to "Is Peyton Manning overrated" which an argument can be made for.

Well then now you are arguing a COMPLETELY different opinion.  I haven't read through the whole thread, but if your "valid points" lead you to the conclusion that Peyton is the most overrated of all time, then I stand by my belief that everything you wrote is nothing more than pure opinion.

I have much less of an issue with you saying Peyton may be overrated.  But most overrated of all time?  Laughable.

 

[cedric ceballos]

4-5 rings?! Only 2 have four and they had some of the greatest, if not THE greatest teams ever with them! Not to mention in the pre free agent days. Those expectations are crazy high

Saints SB was bad, this last one was an abomination on all fronts

I think he could've won about 3. Surprisingly though, I feel some of the key opportunities were years they were a lower seed. 2008 as a 5 seed when they lost to 8-8 San Diego, they were hot and on a 9 game win streak going into it. Brady was hurt that year, the titans were a questionable 1 seed and I would've liked Indys chances against Pittsburgh much better then San Diego, Baltimore or Arizona. They got a bad break never touching the ball in ot in San Diego though.

2010, had they beat the Jets, they had the potential to go on a nice run. New England and Pittsburgh were tough, but Indy would've gave them problems, especially New England with their below average defense that year.

 

[dmxfury]

I'd be more curious if he was coupled with a great defense year after year. Offensively they were fine

 

[cedric ceballos]

so would Jerry West in basketball be over rated? He lost so many times to the Celtics in the finals and only won 1 title.

I wouldn't necessarily argue it if someone said it. Im a Laker fan but those 60's Lakers were the Celtics whipping boys as much as that hurts to say. A majority of those years with the exception of 1969, it was obvious the Celtics were the better team imo but when you lose 10 finals, you deserve a level of criticism for not being able to win the big game.

 

[polosanddunks]

4-5 rings?! Only 2 have four and they had some of the greatest, if not THE greatest teams ever with them! Not to mention in the pre free agent days. Those expectations are crazy high

Saints SB was bad, this last one was an abomination on all fronts

you made some good points as well but yeah my 4-5 rings may be a bit too high but this dude has disappointed me too many times ..Like im thinking if he didnt get all those 1 and dones he might have had a legitimate chance to go to a SB a lot of times

I still cant believe this last SB performance

 

[cedric ceballos]

I'd be more curious if he was coupled with a great defense year after year. Offensively they were fine

I would say from 05 on, with the exception of a season or 2, he's had a sufficient enough defense to win.

I can get someone saying that when they were knocking on New England's door in 03 and 04 that those teams didn't have the defense to make plays when needed. That 04 game though deserves criticism. Remember bill polian lobbied for the rules changes that benifited the receivers after Ty law and Rodney Harrison physically violated those dudes the year prior.

It was 6-3 patriots early in the 3rd quarter, if I'm not mistaken, ultimately the final score was 20-3. Defense didn't play a great game by no means but only giving up 20 in foxboro in January is respectable. That offense, he broke some records that year as well, got shut down by New England throughout that game. This was a game alot of people picked them to win as well after they killed Denver the week prior.