IS BROOKLYN DYING?

[boys noize]

Originally Posted by ObeahMyal

Originally Posted by throwback1718

Serious question though, SHOULD people feel unsafe living where they do? I'm getting this vibe from a bunch of you that the crime is something you miss (or rather, are okay with but are bitter about because the cops showed up when all the blacks/hispanics got pushed out.)

Im not bitter, but I think its uffed up that the cops come through now when there aint a damn thing to be policed except for a few guys who get too drunk and cause a commotion in a bar or whatever. My block is literally right around the corner from a police station but we wasn't gettin that protection prior. They only came thru to pat some pockets but they were never a force that made us feel safe. 
Sad reality of it all. 

I hate to make assumptions, but let's be real here.  Considering the history of policy brutality against black and latino men in NY, you probably didn't want police protection, either. Working-class people of color never wanted police protection. We wanted proper police conduct. 
Boyznoyz, I never said I was "against gentrification," although I can see why you might walk away with that impression. I recognize that gentrification is an incredibly complex process and is not reducible to pro vs. con, good guys versus bad guys. Nevertheless, I am particularly concerned with those who are displaced, working class whites, blacks and the elderly. This might be a pipe dream but I would like local governments to acquire foreclosed homes and use them to provide temporary housing quarters for the displaced. 

I put "against gentrification" in quotes because I wasn't sure that was even the right way of putting it.
I'm definitely not informed enough on this complex topic. Your suggestion is interesting. There are lots of empty homes that are just sitting there that could be put to use. I'm sure bureaucracy needed to set that into motion would be really cumbersome. What I think would be a better suggestion is if a non-profit took over those duties of placing peoples in temporary homes. My friend in San Diego works for an organization that does something similar (although I'm not sure if it's tied to the city.) Maybe there's already something like that here in Brooklyn?

 

[throwback1718]

Originally Posted by ObeahMyal

Originally Posted by throwback1718

Serious question though, SHOULD people feel unsafe living where they do? I'm getting this vibe from a bunch of you that the crime is something you miss (or rather, are okay with but are bitter about because the cops showed up when all the blacks/hispanics got pushed out.)

Im not bitter, but I think its uffed up that the cops come through now when there aint a damn thing to be policed except for a few guys who get too drunk and cause a commotion in a bar or whatever. My block is literally right around the corner from a police station but we wasn't gettin that protection prior. They only came thru to pat some pockets but they were never a force that made us feel safe. 
Sad reality of it all. 

I hate to make assumptions, but let's be real here.  Considering the history of policy brutality against black and latino men in NY, you probably didn't want police protection, either. Working-class people of color never wanted police protection. We wanted proper police conduct. 
Boyznoyz, I never said I was "against gentrification," although I can see why you might walk away with that impression. I recognize that gentrification is an incredibly complex process and is not reducible to pro vs. con, good guys versus bad guys. Nevertheless, I am particularly concerned with those who are displaced, working class whites, blacks and the elderly. This might be a pipe dream but I would like local governments to acquire foreclosed homes and use them to provide temporary housing quarters for the displaced. 


I think proper police conduct would lead to us feeling like we can deal with proper protection. 
I mean aside from the goons with the illegal activity, yes there are MANY people in the hood that would praise police security like the hasidics (sp?) in middle crown heights or Williamsburg get. 

But you cant run before you crawl. No one wants anything to do with police unless they conduct themselves better with us. And I feel that's the first major step. You conduct yourselves better towards us, and we would have no problem welcoming you in.  (Again, aside from anyone who partakes in illegal activities that do not want police around period)

 

[finnns2003]

Originally Posted by cap1229

Happened to DC. Chocolate city ain't chocolate no more. Bout time New York felt it.

As someone born in D.C., what has happened here is a good thing. Same thing in NY.

Sorry Charlies.

 

[richiecotite]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by cap1229

Happened to DC. Chocolate city ain't chocolate no more. Bout time New York felt it.

As someone born in D.C., what has happened here is a good thing. Same thing in NY.

Sorry Charlies.

You say you were born, not raised in D.C., so I'm assuming you've lived the majority of your live elsewhere. Please correct me if i'm wrong. 
I'm not against whats happening in D.C., and it's not a bad thing, it's not a good thing, it just is what it is. The thing most people feel is that with others moving in, and long time resident's moving out, part of the city's culture (which attracts most people) is disappearing. Look at Columbia Heights and that @!!+%## monstrosity (Target, Marshalls)  they threw up. Once upon a time Columbia Heights was a relatively quiet neighborhood, now it's turning into Gallery Place. 

 

[703 hwy]

Now it's rolling through Alexandria and Arlington too, I could see if it was here and there but they are really changing these places forreal. To be honest if I could afford to live in any of these places I wouldn't care

. $700k+ for these 1750sq ft townhouses is not the business though. And dudes got like 3-4 roommates just so they can live downtown is not the business either. Imagine picking up a chick and you like yea I got a spot downtown..........with three other guys

. You gotta be making bank with studios starting at $1700 plus utilities and you still gotta live on top of that. Like I said earlier, it's not a problem until "they" can't afford it anymore. Woodbridge, VA is gonna be one big @!$ hood in a few years.

 

[ironchef]

^true that pleighboy in finna have to look out in Loudoun County for my new upcoming first home, it's far out but eff putting up with those Arlington/Alexandria prices for garbage

 

[jordanscrub]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

People moving in and parts of the borough being revitalized = dying???

OK.

Yes. Important pieces of the community move away and leave less of a "home" feeling. It would be like if you lived in the same area your entire life and anyone who was slightly important to you moved away.

 

[finnns2003]

Originally Posted by richiecotite

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by cap1229

Happened to DC. Chocolate city ain't chocolate no more. Bout time New York felt it.

As someone born in D.C., what has happened here is a good thing. Same thing in NY.

Sorry Charlies.

You say you were born, not raised in D.C., so I'm assuming you've lived the majority of your live elsewhere. Please correct me if i'm wrong. 
I'm not against whats happening in D.C., and it's not a bad thing, it's not a good thing, it just is what it is. The thing most people feel is that with others moving in, and long time resident's moving out, part of the city's culture (which attracts most people) is disappearing. Look at Columbia Heights and that @!!+%## monstrosity (Target, Marshalls)  they threw up. Once upon a time Columbia Heights was a relatively quiet neighborhood, now it's turning into Gallery Place. 

Correct, I've lived in NE D.C., MD, VA at different points. Still, always been in the DMV. I think the concept is the same everywhere, urban areas are becoming more modern, less affordable, and more futuristic/advanced. Small businesses are doing very well in these new 'gentrified' cities, but yeah big businesses like Target and Walmart are popping up everywhere. You'd think the D.C. metro would improve but it's still as #$%@Q#@ as ever.

And dudes got like 3-4 roommates just so they can live downtown is not the business either. Imagine picking up a chick and you like yea I got a spot downtown..........with three other guys

. You gotta be making bank with studios starting at $1700 plus utilities and you still gotta live on top of that. Like I said earlier, it's not a problem until "they" can't afford it anymore. Woodbridge, VA is gonna be one big @!$ hood in a few years.

My boy is like this. Owns a $500k condo but needs roommates to stay in there. Coming back to haunt him as one suddenly moved out.

I wouldn't worry about people not being able to afford it, it's clear this is here to stay.

 

[richiecotite]

Originally Posted by 703 Hwy

Now it's rolling through Alexandria and Arlington too, I could see if it was here and there but they are really changing these places forreal. To be honest if I could afford to live in any of these places I wouldn't care

. $700k+ for these 1750sq ft townhouses is not the business though. And dudes got like 3-4 roommates just so they can live downtown is not the business either. Imagine picking up a chick and you like yea I got a spot downtown..........with three other guys

. You gotta be making bank with studios starting at $1700 plus utilities and you still gotta live on top of that. Like I said earlier, it's not a problem until "they" can't afford it anymore. Woodbridge, VA is gonna be one big @!$ hood in a few years.

HOODBRIDGE STAND UP !!!
But really, there won't be any real 'hoods' in NOVA (besides the random pockets here and there) because there aren't enough poor people 

*edit* finns, you int lying bout metro; i don't know how people do that every day (and i live in communte from Woodbridge to DC) 

 

[703 hwy]

Metro isn't the best but i'd rather get on that everyday then try to drive into DC and make it to work by 8:00a. I've considered moving to Woodbridge but the commute is the only thing holding me back. I'm not trying wake up at 5:00a and wanna be home before 7p (get off at 4:30p). Richie do you use a commuter bus? Don't let there be a fender bender either

.

 

[kiiing]

Everyone wants to be in Brooklyn now. People that can't afford Park Slope go to Windsor Terrace. People that can't afford Prospect Heights go to Crown heights. People that can't afford Williamsburg go to Bushwick etc etc. All the of Brooklyn is pretty much being changed. Rent is going up. There was an article in the NY Times on Park Slope and the 30% increase in rent. Only way to live in Brooklyn while still paying reasonable rent is moving further south into Brooklyn. The closer you are to the city the more rent you will pay.

 

[cap1229]

I was raised in Montgomery County close to Potomac and Bethesda and I still reside close to that area and the prices really haven't changed around here like that. Being close to the city is whatever when you can get the same thing in downtown Bethesda or Silver Spring or Rockville (to a degree). Being in DC is overrated.

 

[obeahmyal]

Originally Posted by finessesupreme86

Im glad to see that my topic has reached 7 pages of well opinionated responses. Among my group of friends and family I seem to be the only who actually dislikes the gentrification going on within Bushiwick.Reading some of the responses here have come to a long over due conclusion that gentrification is nothing new to brooklyn. Rightfully so I tend to have forgotten that in my dismay for "hipsters" moving on in that this area was at one time predominantly italian"s until African Americans and hispanics started to move on in thus creating a "white flight" affect. One thing I would like to know more of is, as opposed to so many out of towners moving in to "make it" and having to live in the next cheapest place to williamsburg, why did or what prompted Hispanics and African Americans to start moving here.

There are always push and pull factors that help to explain the migratory patterns of various groups. In Puerto Rico, economic transformations in sugar production and land ownership following the Spanish-American war along with the Jones Act of 1917 influenced the decision of the island's working-class population to migrate to New York. It was during the 1920s in which Greenpoint, Brooklyn became an early terminal for Puerto Rican migrants because the nearby Naval Yard provided industrial job opportunities.
Similarly, during the first great migration(1910-1920) both southern African Americans and black Americans from the caribbean moved to northern cities. By the 1930s Brooklyn was home for many of these migrants. As was the case for Puerto Ricans, the presence of heavy industrial jobs served as the central "pull factor" for African Americans. 

 

[richiecotite]

Originally Posted by 703 Hwy

Metro isn't the best but i'd rather get on that everyday then try to drive into DC and make it to work by 8:00a. I've considered moving to Woodbridge but the commute is the only thing holding me back. I'm not trying wake up at 5:00a and wanna be home before 7p (get off at 4:30p). Richie do you use a commuter bus? Don't let there be a fender bender either

.

I slug into work.GO BLESS HOV LANES! We moved 2 months ago, but before i lived 1 mile from the Hechinger parking lot. Doorstep to doorstep it would take me 45 minutes. Now it takes me about 1 hr 10 minutes. In the afternoon i take the commuter bus, it takes 50 minutes from when i step foot on the bus to when i'm in my car. When i lived in NE off N. Cap a few yrs ago, it would take me 40 minutes by bus or 30 minutes via metro. Of course if there's an accident or something else, it's gonna be a *++$$. I've sat on 95 for 2 hours before. But it's the same thing with metro, constant delays, overcrowded trains, skyrocketing prices (peak of the peak of the peak of the peak...really?) All in all, metro is just not as convenient as it should be. 

 

[bandit country]

Originally Posted by finessesupreme86

Im glad to see that my topic has reached 7 pages of well opinionated responses. Among my group of friends and family I seem to be the only who actually dislikes the gentrification going on within Bushiwick.Reading some of the responses here have come to a long over due conclusion that gentrification is nothing new to brooklyn. Rightfully so I tend to have forgotten that in my dismay for "hipsters" moving on in that this area was at one time predominantly italian"s until African Americans and hispanics started to move on in thus creating a "white flight" affect. One thing I would like to know more of is, as opposed to so many out of towners moving in to "make it" and having to live in the next cheapest place to williamsburg, why did or what prompted Hispanics and African Americans to start moving here.

The mechanical cotton picker made farm labor obsolete, thus the black wave north in the mid-forties.

 

[getthismoney]

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

Originally Posted by Regis

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

They are moving into neighborhoods that THE CITY has recently poured MILLIONS of dollars into after neglecting for years.

Hipsters aren't out here paving new streets with steamrollers or forming vigilante groups to fight off crime...the city is targeting spots prime for hundred-thousandaires that can't afford Manhattan rent to move into...and they're renovating them.  

You seem to think that all these people are moving into fancy condos or some +%+%. Im not saying that these new buildings are being put up but theyre NOT the majority.
Its still the same crappy buildings (for the most part) just with higher rent.

No its not.
The city auctioned off all of those brownstones in Harlem in the late 90's, early 00'S to affiliated developers. 

They sold off all of the vacant factories in former industrial Brooklyn neighborhoods and encouraged Medical Institutions and Universities like LIU to sponsor neighborhoods like Fort Green. They pushed through developments like the new Nets Arena, etc.

None of this is by accident and no one is living in the same tenements with broken boilers and chipped paint that the previous residents did.

They're currently spending millions to build a greenway in Hunts Point...they just built a crazy complex with with solar paneling, recycled rain water and fruit tress on site on 149th street in the Bronx. 

White people don't just move in and things magically got better.

Goldenchild is 100% right. The city has been pushing for new initiatives for more than a decade. Recently, I read that NYC is sponsoring office spaces for tech startups in the South Bronx area. They are trying to get professional developers and talent to move in, slowly pushing everyone out.

 

[stoneyjax]

Originally Posted by richiecotite

gentrification is a touchy subject. In the short term it hurts the residents that have been there for decades and generations as their priced out, but in the long term, it's usually an economic invigorator.

i moved to DC in 2006 for school and lived in columbia heights/mount pleasant. some days if i didn't leave my neighborhood and/or go near the metro i could count the number of whites i saw on one hand. and you damn sure didn't see them running around at night. Now, it's the norm to see white women out running at midnight on the weekends.

If anything, it seems like we're taking an almost European approach, where cities are for those with money/young singles and the outskirts of the city is where the poorer people live.

good observation... i think thats the trend

 

[ryda421]

the same thing has happened in east hollywood/hollywood. nothing new. it's actually a good thing it's just kind of annoying to see soo many hipsters/yuppies. but hey it's the less of two evils PLUS some of those girls be

 

[finessesupreme86]

I had to re read the news paper article twice today to make sure i was reading things correct. After 28 years mcarren pool in williamsburg is finally re opened? ...hmmm

 

[ninjahood]

gentrification is wack to cats because it was da people who lived there before turned da corner of da neighborhood ON THEIR OWN before da vultures decided to come in and take advantage.

and on another note, i gotta check out that brooklyn pool thats been opened after nearly 30 years of being shuttered.

 

[160jordansdeep]

Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

I'm inserting an outsider/"hipster" perspective. I graduated college in California in May and moved to Brooklyn three weeks ago. Why? I'm an artist (as cliche as that is around here), received an opportunity to do a residency at a studio in Gowanus/Park Slope, have friends out here, and the idea of living in New York has been a romanticized goal of mine since I was in middle school. I'm not a trust fund baby. I received a "small" scholarship before I graduated and if I can't find steady work to keep me going, I'll probably have to leave. Regardless, I've only been here a short time but I love Brooklyn. I live in Red Hook in a converted factory loft space across the street from project housing. It's quiet out here and I've never felt unsafe. The Red Hook I'm getting to know is a small, tight knit community of artists and creative types that enjoy living away from the noise and crowd of Manhattan while being just close enough to the city and having space for their various practices (industrial design, art studio, woodworking, etc.) I don't know anything about Red Hook's history although I hear it used to be a lot worse.

Like it or not, New York City is the art capital of the world and attracts creative types from all kinds of industries. It's a point of pride for most New Yorkers I've met but it's that same attraction that's going to unfortunately price people out of neighborhoods as more people want to come in. I don't really think there is anything that can happen since property owners aren't going to complain about getting more money and the city isn't going to be mad that crime rates go down.

Just my two cents.
edit: I've only been up to Williamsburg twice (to go see bands) but I don't really get the knock on it. Yeah, it's full of young white people but I don't really see the problem. There are tons of great bars, restaurants, and music venues in the area. I do wish there were more divey places because these $7-8 beers are killing me 

The Only way for it to change is for you and your fellow hipsters to move to Portland ,San Fran and austin.The only reason why you feel safe is because the cops are gonna protect you at all cost because you bring in dollars and a fake Industry that the minute you find Is boring you will live.Ive seen your kind come and go and believe me you don't truly care .

that's the truth 

 

[scientific method]

Where are they "allowed" to live then? We complain about white flight, complain about gentrification, and complain about de facto segregation.

 

[goldenchild9]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

Where are they "allowed" to live then? We complain about white flight, complain about gentrification, and complain about de facto segregation.

Bruh...

 

[gottabeem21]

Originally Posted by CodLiverOil

Originally Posted by GottaBeEm21

so lemme get this straight.  white people, or "hipsters" as some of you like to call them, are moving into "your" neighborhoods, which lowers the crime rate, increases safety, and revitalizes dilapidated buildings, and you're saying that the neighborhood is "dying" because of this?

******ed.

i can see by your limited vocabulary that this topic of discussion is far out of reach.

 

[atlien seeko]

Originally Posted by Scientific Method

Where are they "allowed" to live then? We complain about white flight, complain about gentrification, and complain about de facto segregation.

These are the questions that matter.