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none of those are funny....Originally Posted by damnitzdom
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none of those are funny....Originally Posted by damnitzdom
Originally Posted by twozerosix
Originally Posted by Essential1
It's Rick Perry.... Who care what he says..
It's like the Republican Primary is one big joke, just none of us are in on it.
Yeah lets re-elect Obama!
spreading a simple message to 1.5~ Billion humans on all corners of the Earth and redefining every aspect of his society in a few short years is more impressive than the Egyptian civilization was.
no.
whats the difference? number of co-believers?Originally Posted by oidreez
you keep trying to take these sneaky shots by comparing the guy who believes in God to someone who might believe in spider-man/barbie dolls
have you ever not seen spiderman?
then how do you know he's not real?
there are really old books that tell about his life....
i dont need any science to prove spidermans existence
i believe in him and have faith.
as far as barbie dolls......have you seen her car? how can you say she doesnt exist?
smh
hopefully youll find faith inside yourself
to one day realize the true path
and give your faith to spiderman.
Originally Posted by tkthafm
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Originally Posted by tkthafm
How did religion "ruin" Egypt, Turkey or Pakistan ?
It's actually the exact opposite. All those countries were ruined by corrupting Western influence and a lack of adherence to Islam. Which is ironic because it was also Islam that played a major role in taking the West out of the dark ages.
For example, when Egypt was under control of the Caliphates during the Islamic golden age it was one of the biggest centers of learning and science on Earth. Things started to go down hill when religion starting playing a lesser role thanks to colonialist Westerners coming in and setting up puppet 'secular' regimes. The 'secular' dictator gets overthrown and free elections are held.... and Islamists win overwhelmingly.
@ thinking everyone in the world wants democracy and secularism.
Typical, my religion is better than yours nonsense. Egypt flourished even before Islam got there as one of the greatest civilizations that has ever existed. The pyramids and monuments in Egypt are of Egyptian Gods and Pharoahs not MUHAMMED.This is the same hypocrite that got mad at black people for giving credit for all discoveries to Africans doing the exact same thing.
The most non-religious countries in the world have the lowests crimes rates, lowest poverty rates and highest literacy, scientific discovery and literacy rates.
Yea not everyone wants to live in a world were women can't be beaten if they get raped. Allah forbid.
I "got mad" at people claiming achievements that never happened.
In this case there's no denying the fact that when Islam ruled all the societies under it where at their best. Ancient Egypt obviously had achievements in their own right but nothing on the scale of the Islamic caliphates which bought together countless cultures and had them all living in peace under one rule.
Women getting "beaten when raped" has nothing to do with Islam. Prove me otherwise (IE: proof from Qu'ran or authentic Hadiths). That's right, it doesn't exist.
The Qur'an:
Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Qur'an (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.
From the Hadith:
Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.
Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.
Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."
Muslim (9:3506) - Muhammad's father-in-laws (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him byslapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.
Abu Dawud (2141) - "Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them." At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.
Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."
Abu Dawud (2126) - "A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: 'I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).' The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'" A Muslim man thinks his is getting a virgin, then finds out she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she has delivered the child.
Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 969 - Requires that a married woman be "put in a separate room and beaten lightly" if she "act in a sexual manner toward others." According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.
Kash-shaf (the revealer) of al-Zamkhshari (Vol. 1, p. 525) - [Muhammad said] "Hang up your scourge where your wife can see it"
Originally Posted by NobleKane
wait im confused. isnt op an atheist?
so now hes a christian?
well good for you young fella...
Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) herself said: Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam)
OF COURSE YOU WOULD SAY THISOriginally Posted by tkthafm
None of those have anything to do with beating rape victims. Just taken out of context or poorly paraphrased /w added commentary to make it sound "evil". We already discussed the issue of "beating" ad nauseam women in the other thread.
Nice try though.
http://www.systemoflife.c...nd-also-beat-wife-ayesha
Originally Posted by tkthafm
Again, already discussed. If you want the fiqh on "beating" women go back to the old thread.
Keep ignoring the evidence (such as the authentic Hadith above which clearly states - from the Wife he "hit" - that the Prophet never beat any women ever) that doesn't point in your way. I can paraphrase just about any speech ever made to make it fit my agenda as well.
Pathetic :smh
Well put it in context homie.Originally Posted by tkthafm
This is why arguing with these clowns is useless... give them the context of the Hadith they quote and they don't even read it.
Originally Posted by tkthafm
This is why arguing with these clowns is useless... give them the context of the Hadith they quote and they don't even read it.
As far the sites defining certain words.... your websites do the very same thing. Only in this case the Hadith is shown in full context and the whole story of what happened is given. Non-Arabic speakers go to the anti-Islam sites and get a laundry list of "evil" Hadith and verses and then complain when they are properly translated (IE: word root given).
Sad what lengths they have to go to in attacking Islam.
Whole context:
Author quoted
Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Reply[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Here is the complete hadith[/color]
MUSLIM Book 004, Number 2127: Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.(end)
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12] [/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]My Friend and Brother Dr Asif replied;[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]AS A DOCTOR I ANALYSED THIS HADITH, THE DISTANCE BETWEEN HOME OF AISHA R.A. & JANNATUL BAQI IS QUITE LONG.[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]NOW SEE THE BOLD PART OF HADITH IN BLUE,[/color]
AS AISHA R.A WAS AFRAID THAT PROPHET (peace be upon him) WILL COME TO KNOW SHE WAS FALLOWING HER, SO IN ORDER TO AVOID THIS SHE CAME RUNNING BACK TO HOME,
IT IS NATURAL PHYSIOLOGICAL PHENOMENON WHEN A PERSON RUNS FOR A DISTANCE MORE THAN 100 meters, BODY RESPONDS WITH HYPERVENTILATION.
PERSONS BREATHS FAST & EVEN HEART RATE INCREASES, BLOOD PRESSURE INCREASES, DURING SUCH SITUATION IF YOU GIVE SLIGHT PUSH ON CHEST PERSON WILL FEEL PAIN. YOU CAN DO THIS ON YOURSELF ALSO TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS,IN ABOVE HADITH PROPHET SAAS JUST GIVE A PUSH TO AISHA R.A & SHE FELT PAIN .....(end of his saying)
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Moreover[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) herself said: Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Musnad Ishaq bin Rawahiya no: 698, Ibn Maajah Kitab al Nikah hadeeth no: 1984 Al-Albaanee said it is Saheeh.][/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12].[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Source of Musnad Ishaq: http://www.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=101&hid=698&pid=26710[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Source of Ibne Majah:http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=653&BookID=35&PID=3687[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]This clears all the things Alhumdulillah.[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12].[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Lastly see beautiful Explanation by brother Kevin Abdullah here: http://www.quransearch.com/karim/mistranslations_of_hadiths.htm[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12].[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]He made many points in his article, one is, the term used in the hadith is: Lahada.[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states that: The word "lahada" according to the lexicographers means, "to push" (dafa'a).(End quote for details see his full article)[/color]
[color= rgb(0, 0, 12]So it is clear Prophet Peace be upon him never beat his wives nor any other woman.[/color]
When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet for prayer, a man attacked her and raped her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: “That man did such and such to me.
Secondly, this calls to an important matter that is related to the Hand imposition of the Prophet - Allah bless him - because it is a gesture associated with driving away evil influence (waswâs) and conferring blessing as the following reports show:
and this same wife states the Prophet never beat any women. Continue to ignore the Hadiths above though.
In the Prophets 63 years of life, the only evidence you can bring up is a Hadith about the Prophet pushing a wife (in manner which confers blessing/driving away evil - as confirmed by other Hadiths) who herself claims he never hit/harmed her or any other women physically. Do you know how many thousands of Hadith exist and how detailed a biography we have concerning the Prophet's life ? If supposedly the claims you are making are true it would make sense to have more evidence than this.
YO IF I PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE, ITS STILL FORCING/PUSHING YOUR FACE BACK.Originally Posted by tkthafm
http://www.quransearch.co...nslations_of_hadiths.htm
^more light shed on the other Hadiths you quoted erroneously.
The term used in the hadith is:
Imam Nawawi in his Sharh states that:
The word "lahada" according to the lexicographers means, "to push" (dafa'a).
The usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as Gf haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore
Secondly, this calls to an important matter that is related to the Hand imposition of the Prophet - Allah bless him - because it is a gesture associated with driving away evil influence (waswâs) and conferring blessing as the following reports show:
1. Ubay ibn Ka`b said: "There occurred in my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - saw how I was affected, he slapped me on the chest. I broke into a sweat and felt as if I were looking at Allâh in fear."
(Sahih Muslim)
2. Jarir ibn Abdullah Al Bajalî was sent by the Prophet - Allah bless him - on a mission to destroy Dhu Al Kahalasa, the idol-house of Khatham, nicknamed the Yemenite Kaba. Jarr narrates:
"I went along with a hundred and fifty horsemen but I could not sit steadily on horse. I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided one!' (Bukhari and Muslim)
More proof that the correct translation is
‘He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore’
Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh.]
Wife-beating can’t be considered "in the Cause of Allaah" - the reference in the Hadeeth is a reference to Jihaad on the battlefield. "When the prohibitions of Allaah were violated" is a reference to someone committing a crime, and their being tried and then punished by flogging. This is not a reference to the way a husband should treat his wife.
So here we clearly see in a sahih (authentic) hadith that Aisha clearly told that the prophet ‘never hit a servent or a women’.
So this is also a clear proof that The usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as Gf haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore
Originally Posted by tkthafm
Answering false claim nr.4:
‘answering the false claim that women are oppressed in islam’
(misunderstood hadith) Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715:
Narrated 'Ikrima:
Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering AS MUCH AS THE BELIEVING WOMEN. Look! Her skin IS GREENER THAN HER CLOTHES!." When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless 'Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"
In the above Hadith, there are few points to notice and mention:
1- The man failed to follow Noble Verse 4:34 which was sent by Allah Almighty to protect women from harmfull men.
2- The woman was trying to get back with her first husband. In Islam, if a woman gets divorced or divorces herself from her husband through the Islamic court by "Khala'", then the only way she can get back with her husband, or her husband gets back to her is by HER MARRYING ANOTHER PERSON, HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH HIM, AND THEN GET A DIVORCE FROM HIM. This is to guarantee that divorce would not be a joke among Muslims.
3- The woman was claiming that her second husband was sexually no good. The husband disputed that, and brought his two sons from another marriage as a proof that he can perform sex. The Prophet peace be upon him then told the woman "by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow".
4- Aisha's opinion about the woman's bruise doesn't prove or disprove anything. She got angry because she saw another woman badly beaten, which is perfectly fine and acceptable. But her emotions and opinions are not Islamic Verdicts!
Muhammeds own wife can't comment on the abuse of another woman?
HILARIOUS
No wonder you all don't see how badly you treat women.
A woman's complaints aren't validI SEE NOW!
Many authentic hadith proof that Islam liberated women and made them free. See hadith Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2138 & 2139.
In ‘Sahih Muslim, Book 018, Number 4251’ we see that a woman in islam is even allowed to take from her husband's property without his knowledge if he falls below this basic level of supporting her. Also Umar Ibn khattab told the prophet that ‘women had the upperhand over men in Medina in’ in Sahih Bukhari,Volume 7, Book 62, Number 119’ , the prophet showed a smile after hearing this.
Alimony. OK...
This clearly proofs that aicha’s reaction was based on emotions, which is normal and perfectly fine. We also have to notice that in pre-islamic (before islam) time women were depressed by the arabs, Islam came to liberate those women and to give them many rights. Unfortunately some muslim men (still today) fail to follow the true message of Islam, instead of this they follow their evil (pagan) cultural practices and customs! , this has nothing to do with Islam! Islam honours women and clearly fobids the cruel beating of wives!
Ok...and?
The same islam you claim gives women rights also condones beating them when they don't do what their men say.
Is it an arbitrary hit? No...but its one that comes after disobeying what their husbands say. So much for freedom.
Secondly the hadith tells only one part of the incident, it doesn’t mention anything about the decision made by the prophet after this incident , simply because only one part of the story is known and written down. So it’s rediculous to say that Islam and the prophet allowed wife beating, as a matter of fact the opposite is true!
The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
This incorrectly asserts that since we don't know the verdict then islam wins.
If you dont know...YOU DONT KNOW. They're just making up conclusions here.
Noble Verses and Sayings about the prohibition of wife beating:
The following Noble Verses and Sayings from the Noble Quran and Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him respectively seem to very well support the above interpretation:
"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...
Originally Posted by ThorrocksJs
This dude is so insensitive to others religions it's disgusting and he should've been banned already.
Originally Posted by tkthafm
The other Hadiths you quoted are already included in the site I linked to. A simple google search will yield dozens of refutations of each. Enemies of Islam have been using the same lies for centuries.
Your.... "analysis" of the evidence is pathetic. You get one Hadith from Aisha stating the Prophet never hit any women, and state : "Who are these people. They're speaking on behalf of someone they've never met."
Who ? The Prophets wife... I'm pretty sure she met him. Clearly we've found a hole in your logic but you hide it by stating "how do we know she wasn't lying" etc ... going on assumptions/bias.
and then have no problem using other Hadith out of context (which are all cases of people speaking on behalf of someone/reporting incidents) to spread your lies about Islam.
You cry about the Prophet not doing something, and then the next sentence states he did and you reply "aww thats sweet" ... pathetic.
and "harry potter novels" ?
Again ignoring the mountains of literary/scientific evidence that no human could have possible written the Qur'an. (see other thread).
OH REALLY?
Who wrote the Quran then?
By changing words from "beat" to "lightly tap?"
or
"she earned it!"
Bruh, I looked at EVERYTHING you posted. I'm trying to be honest with you here...you're making amends when there ARE none.
If you really looked at everything, how can you still be arguing about this ? The context was given. The reason it was done was given. The proof that it was done in other instances to confer blessing/ward off evil was given. Hadith from her (which you refuse to accept, yet accept this one... ?) was given....
There are literally thousands of Hadiths.. if she was lying in this case, why are you unable to find any others stating he hit/beat women ?
You go back to 4:34... no one is denying that this exists. The point is it should be done in limited extreme circumstances and following certain guidelines (lightly, not hit face etc) but it would be better if it is never done because the best example (the Prophet) never did it. At the end of the day, your position is never hitting a women in any case, ever. The Islamic one is in taking every precaution not to but being allowed to lightly hit them (not face etc) in extreme circumstances... but it's still better to avoid doing so at all. Sure you have Muslims who ignore the guidelines and go to extremes (ie: beating rape victims) which is why these actions would be prosecuted under Islamic law.
As far as who wrote the Qur'an.. we went over this. I provided you with a link to a series that goes into details on how it was revealed,memorized and recorded etc. The point is, they are God's literal word. Obviously you don't believe this.... the question is then how did a illiterate (documented) man 1400 years ago produce such exquisite literature that contained numerous scientific phenomenon (big bang, earth revolving around sun, moon reflecting suns light (not own light), earth not flat, iron originating from stars, embryology, historical fact unknown at the time etc etc) that contains no contradictions ? His enemies at the time claimed it was witchcraft or collaboration/theft of other texts etc.... what is your explanation ?
Did the Prophet spend time perfecting the number of times "he" used certain words ? (feel free to verify the numbers yourself)
"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times. The number of repetitions of the word "month" (shahar) is 12.
The number of times the words "man" and "woman" are repeated in the Qur'an, 23, is at the same time that of the chromosomes from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo. The total number of human chromosomes is 46; 23 each from the mother and father.
The word "land" appears 13 times in the Qur'an and the word "sea" 32 times, giving a total of 45 references. If we divide that number by that of the number of references to the land we arrive at the figure 28.888888888889%. The number of total references to land and sea, 45, divided by the number of references to the sea in the Qur'an, 32, is 71.111111111111%. Extraordinarily, these figures represent the exact proportions of land and sea on the Earth today.238
Sheer coincidence ?
inb4 100 rolling smileys and a page of out of context verses/"contradictions".
Originally Posted by tkthafm
"Immoral" yet you are unable to provide a shred of evidence showing this. Obviously Islam is being attacked much more so than any other religion at the moment. Just look at this thread and the extent people will go to just to spread lies.
Let's not pretend like Buddhists haven't killed millions (including many Muslims):
http://rupeenews.com/abou...ligions-have-terrorists/