"If I really wanted to win the scoring title I could win it every single year..."

[ph3n0m3n0n]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Says the person who makes an unintelligent comment. Your post meant really nothing. I could use Barkley/Ewing/Malone as a comparison and I'd still be right. If Jordan played in this media friendly era he would have been tortured at this same stage. On top of the fact that Jordan NEVER made it to the finals and lost. When he got what was percieved as help....he won. Bron did not do that. And I never said Bron won't win a ring, just that his track record says different. No one KNOWS what his fate will be. We can speculate but guaranteeing a chip is just dumb. Talk about unintelligent.

Where was Lebrons help?

 

[jsindaa]

First post I said his teammates are damn good during the regular season. Second post I said what is PERCIEVED as help. You need to read before you post. You look not so smart otherwise.

 

[jsindaa]

Double

 

[ph3n0m3n0n]

You gonna answer my question or are you gonna continue calling people not smart?

 

[hannsum]

Originally Posted by bittersweet

When Lebron and you guys learn that one person can't win it all, they'll win a championship. The only time LBJ gets his team involved is when he wants to get his assists up, or get a pretty play. He doesn't trust his team, and that will be the downfall of their season.

If he hasn't won in 6 years, who's fault is it? They've traded, done everything, Lebron became the coach and everything. What's the reason they haven't won a title yet?

lol and this guy has jordan 11s on his avatar. mj says its okay so you can stay away from this thread.

  

 

[hannsum]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Says the person who makes an unintelligent comment. Your post meant really nothing. I could use Barkley/Ewing/Malone as a comparison and I'd still be right. If Jordan played in this media friendly era he would have been tortured at this same stage. On top of the fact that Jordan NEVER made it to the finals and lost. When he got what was percieved as help....he won. Bron did not do that. And I never said Bron won't win a ring, just that his track record says different. No one KNOWS what his fate will be. We can speculate but guaranteeing a chip is just dumb. Talk about unintelligent.

LOL $%! is this guy? I mean what are you?
If you think MJ could've won against the Spurs in in that series with the help of Lebron...LOL slap yourself twice.
  

 

[jsindaa]

You guys need to READ. I said already that his teammates are sooo great during the regular season. That's all we hear all season how deep the cavs are blah blah blah. Yet when they lose his teammates suck? No. Those are the same players you guys praised before failure. Bron has gotten people who were supposedly going to help win that chip annnnnd he has none. I never said they were good. You guys say that. And regardless of his teammates he got swept in the Finals and he was shut down. Make all the excuses you want, today April 1st 2010 Lebron James has not proven himself to be a winner. All these unfactual hypotheses are beyond stupid and have 0 basis in reality. That a good enough answer for you?

 

[jsindaa]

Crap double again!

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Real talk, the Cavs supporting cast has sucked until this year.

He has no excuses this year though.......

Dude took a team with Boobie Gibson as the second best player to the Finals and you knocking him. Boobie Gibson wouldn't start for a single playoff team in the West or none of the top 5 in the East. Hell I don't even know if he would be the first guy off the bench either.

People ESPECIALLY NT straight clowned whenever people said Mo Williams was a legit second option. Who is the mythological help that Lebron has had before this year?

 

[jbone2308]

Last year they didn't win 60+ games, the years before been in the 50's?

LOL at it all being Lebron. Come on like some said it's a team game. But yet they don't win titles his teammates suck. How many team would give their life for 50+ winning seasons in a row.

 

[im not you]

Rich Levine:Durant asked if, like LeBron, he could win a scoring title at will: "Nah, I'm not that confident. Too many good players in this league..."Yesterday.

Read more:http://hoopshype.com/twitter_media.html#ixzz0jrEbpiKo

 

[jehlers02]

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Last year they didn't win 60+ games, the years before been in the 50's?

LOL at it all being Lebron. Come on like some said it's a team game. But yet they don't win titles his teammates suck. How many team would give their life for 50+ winning seasons in a row.

Lebron produces in the season, his teammates produce in the season.
Lebron produces in the playoffs, his teammates dont produce in the playoffs.

Just look at last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, but i believe the year before that it went
Lebron produces during season, his teammates dont produce during season.
Lebron produces during playoffs, his players dont produce during playoffs.

 

[ph3n0m3n0n]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

You guys need to READ. I said already that his teammates are sooo great during the regular season. That's all we hear all season how deep the cavs are blah blah blah. Yet when they lose his teammates suck? No. Those are the same players you guys praised before failure. Bron has gotten people who were supposedly going to help win that chip annnnnd he has none. I never said they were good. You guys say that. And regardless of his teammates he got swept in the Finals and he was shut down. Make all the excuses you want, today April 1st 2010 Lebron James has not proven himself to be a winner. All these unfactual hypotheses are beyond stupid and have 0 basis in reality. That a good enough answer for you?

No. It's not because YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION. 

You keep spouting off about what other people thought. I asked you who was his help in those series. WHO? Give names and credentials please.

You know what help is?

KG/Ray Allen = HELP

Pau Gasol = HELP

Those guys PRODUCED. Who on those teams of Lebron's produced during those series?

 

[jbone2308]

Originally Posted by Jehlers02

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Last year they didn't win 60+ games, the years before been in the 50's?

LOL at it all being Lebron. Come on like some said it's a team game. But yet they don't win titles his teammates suck. How many team would give their life for 50+ winning seasons in a row.

Lebron produces in the season, his teammates produce in the season.
Lebron produces in the playoffs, his teammates dont produce in the playoffs.

Just look at last year, and the year before that, and the year before that, but i believe the year before that it went
Lebron produces during season, his teammates dont produce during season.
Lebron produces during playoffs, his players dont produce during playoffs.

The same can be said for other players that this has happened to.

My question is why is it just Lebron being portrayed as the only player ever to go through this?  Why is it he is portrayed as the only player to ever solely shoulder a team anywhere?

It's not true and it's not fact, there have been many greats who have had subpar teammates or even great teammates that didn't produce here and there but were great all year.  There have been teams that had great players that carried the load like Lebron.  But people act like this is something new.

For example ask Shaq about his Orlando days.  I believe all this talk is just another way to elevate Lebron in the mix with all-time greats, which is premature.

  

 

[onetrust]

WOW...the usual suspects thinking Lebron had legitimate "help"  in winning a title.  Y'all dudes know DAMN well, if his supporting cast was on the team YOU root for, you'd think they were bums.  Oh yeah, silly me, how could i forget that ALL STAR talent he had in Big Z and Mo Williams.

 

[jsindaa]

You can't be this slow. Its simple Cavs bring in someone who is
supposed to help. They don't in the playoffs but they did alll season.
This is simple if his teammates are "great" during the season they are
"great" period. The fact that you used Pau is ridiculous. How is he
suddenly help when he flopped the first finals they went to? I'll
wait. Stop with the excuses. I NEVER said Bron had the best
teammates ever or all star caliber players however he needs to take
some of the blame for losing in the playoffs. Period. If his teammates
help him get the best record in the league they are good enough to
help get a ring. I've answered your question twice now. You need to stop switching your criteria.

 

[mjsaver]

If he ends up ringless, that no help talk wont be enough of a reason.

That would be unfair to other ringless greats.

 

[JD617]

You can't be this slow. Its simple Cavs bring in someone who is supposed to help. They don't in the playoffs but they did alll season. This is simple if his teammates are "great" during the season they are "great" period. The fact that you used Pau is ridiculous. How is he suddenly help when he flopped the first finals they went to? I'll wait. Stop with the excuses. I NEVER said Bron had the best teammates ever or all star caliber players however he needs to take some of the blame for losing in the playoffs. Period. If his teammates help him get the best record in the league they are good enough to help get a ring. I've answered your question twice now. You need to stop switching your criteria.
So Mo Williams picked the worst possible time to go into a slump, shooting 37% in the Orlando series... but it doesn't matter because he was good in the regular season. Riiight.

'09 Cavs players who played better in the playoffs than they did in the regular season:

Lebron

'09 Cavs players who played worse in the playoffs than they did in the regular season:

Ilgauskas
Mo Williams
Joe Smith
Varejao
Delonte
Ben Wallace
Wally Szerdslfhnkldsnvl
Boobie Gibson

he needs to take some of the blame for losing in the playoffs. Period.
When a man averages 35, 9, and 7 on 51% shooting, zero part of the blame goes to him. Period.

 

[ph3n0m3n0n]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

You can't be this slow. Its simple Cavs bring in someone who is
supposed to help. They don't in the playoffs but they did alll season.
This is simple if his teammates are "great" during the season they are
"great" period. The fact that you used Pau is ridiculous. How is he
suddenly help when he flopped the first finals they went to? I'll
wait. Stop with the excuses. I NEVER said Bron had the best
teammates ever or all star caliber players however he needs to take
some of the blame for losing in the playoffs. Period. If his teammates
help him get the best record in the league they are good enough to
help get a ring. I've answered your question twice now. You need to stop switching your criteria.

Now you're just being dense for the hell of it. I'll agree to disagree and just end it.

 

[bittersweet]

You guys' know that when they have 50+ wins, the Cavs team is GREAT. When they lose, they have the worst bench ever.

That just isn't possible. The justifications just go TOO far. If they have 50+ wins, they're good, PERIOD.

They can win a ring. Don't blame it on the bench, don't blame it on anything else.

As much @$%$ as you guys' talk about other players not winning because the star players' stats are too high...

Holds weight here.

 

[jehlers02]

The point is no one knows what he's gonna get out of his supporting cast come playoff time. They are unpredictable, even in the regular season at times.
But what we do know is Lebron is gonna put up numbers, regular season, and playoffs.

This isn't like a spurs team a few years ago where Manu could go off, then Duncan, then Parker.
Or the Pistons years back with Billups, Rip, Sheed.
Or last years magic, Rashard, Turkoglu, Howard, Lee, and even Pietrus went off.
Or the Lakers...we already know they're stacked.
Or the Celtics, the big three.
Or even the hawks this year.

The Cavs have Mo, West, Z, and now a Jamison, and shaq (washed up shaq). It just doenst compare to those other teams.
Why do they play so well in the Regular season? Lebron
Why do they make it to the ECF every year? Lebron
Its all about the supporting cast deciding to show up or not, we dont know what they'll end up doing.
We do know Lebron will show up though.

 

[JD617]

Holy !%*+. It doesn't matter if people consider his supporting cast to be great, good, average, bad, or terrible. It. Does. Not. Matter. What matters is their production.

If you ran Lebron out there with the friggin '92 Dream Team in their primes, and all of them happened to shoot 0 for 300 in a series, then guess what? They'd get swept.

That's a really extreme example, but hopefully it gets the point across: it DOESN'T MATTER what the perception of his teammates is; if the production isn't there, then it's not there.

"But, but, his supporting cast was good! They won a bunch of games in the regular season!"

What the hell does that have to do with the fact that none of them showed up in the playoffs? Not ONE SINGLE PLAYER other than Lebron played as well in the playoffs as he did in the regular season, and not only that, most of them played SIGNIFICANTLY worse.

The funny thing is, you guys are proving the god damn point without even realizing it. When his supporting cast played well, like they did in the regular season, the Cavs won. When they disappeared, like they did in the playoffs, the Cavs lost, as soon as they played an opponent on their level. This is not #*$@$@# rocket science.

When people talk about a player's stats being too high, they're talking about a player chucking at a low percentage and not moving the ball enough. This was obviously NOT the case with Lebron in the '09 playoffs. He was the EXACT opposite of that; he played about as efficiently as humanly possible.

at his "stats being too high," like it's even possible to grab too many rebounds or dish out too many assists, or shoot at too high of a percentage.

I swear to God, it's like talking to a brick wall with some of you. I hate the Cavs with a passion, and you guys are almost making me root for them, just to shut all of these remedial "arguments" up.

If the Cavs fail again this year, and his teammates play like they're capable of playing, then I will be the FIRST ONE to criticize Lebron for it. But blaming him for the Cavs' playoff exit last year is just beyond stupid.

/rant

 

[onetrust]

Originally Posted by JD617

You can't be this slow. Its simple Cavs bring in someone who is supposed to help. They don't in the playoffs but they did alll season. This is simple if his teammates are "great" during the season they are "great" period. The fact that you used Pau is ridiculous. How is he suddenly help when he flopped the first finals they went to? I'll wait. Stop with the excuses. I NEVER said Bron had the best teammates ever or all star caliber players however he needs to take some of the blame for losing in the playoffs. Period. If his teammates help him get the best record in the league they are good enough to help get a ring. I've answered your question twice now. You need to stop switching your criteria.

So Mo Williams picked the worst possible time to go into a slump, shooting 37% in the Orlando series... but it doesn't matter because he was good in the regular season. Riiight.

'09 Cavs players who played better in the playoffs than they did in the regular season:

Lebron

'09 Cavs players who played worse in the playoffs than they did in the regular season:

Ilgauskas
Mo Williams
Joe Smith
Varejao
Delonte
Ben Wallace
Wally Szerdslfhnkldsnvl
Boobie Gibson

he needs to take some of the blame for losing in the playoffs. Period.
When a man averages 35, 9, and 7 on 51% shooting, zero part of the blame goes to him. Period.

QFT. 

Dude's are missing the point and are CLEARLY hating just to hate.  So because he played EVEN better than he did in the reg. season, he should get blamed?  That makes NO SENSE.  The guys that played WORSE in the playoffs than the reg. season should get blamed.  How is that so hard to understand?

 

[jsindaa]

What the hell are you guys talking about? When did I specifcally say last year? Never. I said they keep losing in the playoffs and at some point Bron has to shoulder some of the blame. You guys are so focused on "oh he was so efficient last year" when I NEVER pointed out a single playoff year. Maybe they keep failing because of his style of play. Ever thought about that? He's great yes but individual stats get you nowhere. And while he has pretty terrible support, he somehow makes them sooo great during the season yet when the playoffs hit and they fail, its not his fault. That's stupid. Its a combination of him, his teammates, and his dumb coach. End o story. Like I've said twice now its time to stop making excuses and hold him somewhat accountable for their failures. Peyton Manning is praised for making his teammates better during the season but when they lose in the playoffs....it falls on him. Regardless of how well he did or did not play. The same holds true for EVERY superstar in EVERY league except for Bron for some odd reason. So while he's a stat stuffer he isn't doing much winning. Continue to not blame him if you want but as far as I'm concerned something they are doing is NOT working and they includes Lebron James

 

[JD617]

When did I specifcally say last year? Never.
My bad, I didn't realize you were also including the years when the Cavs weren't even a top 5 team in the league.