Hip-hop discussion... Am I the one lunchin'? Semi-long read for the lazy...

[eyes of hazel]

Alight,

I was honored to be asked to host a "celebrity" hip-hip Jeopardy game show for Black History Month.

Cool beans.

---

Immediately after accepting the responsibility, I get criticized for:

- Being too much of a Purists...

- Too willing to "run in people faces" that I was entrenched in hip-hop during the "Golden Era" (I was only child... hung out with myuncles, who were 16, 17, and 18 in 1986, so.....)

- Too willing to throw in a CD from 1993 before giving the new stuff out here a chance.

I was asked to listen to a mix CD and "open up" a little. Okay. Fine. Whatever.

---

The CD was a DTLR mixtape from this past holiday season... Hosted by Herkules and DJ Soundwave.

I throw it in this morning on my way to the office.

Joints starts off with Kanye's "Amazing."

From there... WHOMP WHOMP...
*"You really like her" - I-20 fea. Luda
* "Swag-On" - Soulja Boy
* "...I'm cool..." - Lil' Wayne fea. Bun B
* "Half a Brick" - "O.J. the Juice Man" Gucci Man
* "Nike Boots (remix) - WALE! fea. Lil' Wayne

Then I'm at work before getting to the next track (THANK GOD).

---

Question?

Am I the one trippin' here? Or is it justified that I don't have an appetite right now?

 

[dimondj15]

nah you ain't trippin... I'm only 24 and I'm like can i go back to the 80s please?...dont give most new stuff a chance, cause most new stuff belike Popeye before he had some spinach

 

[eyes of hazel]

"HARMCITY45,"

As you know, I never knock truth. No matter how harsh it may be.

And you get the Bishop's "Tabernacle" praise for your post.

I respect your diversity.

Same as me listening to "**^k the Police"... Then "We Got Our Own Thang" right afterwards...

---

But, here is my stance...

Even the songs during the "eras", i.e. Paid in Full, are full of samples...

With less technology...

Today? With the advancement of technology, and that foundation set, there shouldn't be ONE BAD hip-hop song ever created, no matter if its"hard" or "party."

Bammas lost creativity.

One new track I mess with now is Tabi's "The Rich".

Sounds like something MC Shan or Special Ed would have done back in the day.

 

[rockdeep]

Harm.. I outta E-Smack you!!!! lol

Do in the Butt and She got a Donk is the same just different Era??

Nega are you smokin Weebay's stash? lolol They can't put she got a Donk in a song unless it was produced by Masta P.. like EU's joint was in SchoolDaze.. Still somewhat corny I know when you look back on it..

BUT.. I don't consider myself an elitist or purist.. just an appreciator of the Classic Stuff.. I still like some stuff from today like Kev said.Kanye's stuff.. even some 50 stuff.. But even Prodigy don't do it for me like he used to or Buckshot Shorty and his underground commercial collabocrap.

I use to LOVE listenin to my Esh Ko Ska from Smif N Wessun. Classic joint. but todays Music on a broad base has no Story Telling truth to it.. that can bebelieved... Music like Tribe was stuff you could BOB your head to OR actually listen to the lyrics.. You never had to do both..cause back then the Instrumentalcould be played for 5 minutes before the Break in.

I used to be in Stamp Union at UMD at the BSU parties and thinkin about how good the Music was .. the Vibe was just makes me smile. I barely listen to theradio EVER now, cause you still have to find the real good stuff on Mixtapes months and months before they even thought about being on Radio IF ever being onRadio.

I think some of the best music today NEVER sees the radio playlist. Its on XMs hip Hop stations.

I like Lil Wayne unlike many of my Peers of today, because that dude can tell a story and make me Bob my head.

But even he's saturating the Market. I miss Doug Lazy shoooooot...

 

[posite fiend]

* "Half a Brick" - "O.J. the Juice Man" Gucci Man

i was blastin that song on the strip at VA beach this past 4th of july, bammas was lookin at me like

i was drunk as hell that night n when i got out all i heard was dude voice in my head screamin OKAY...AY...AY...OKAY.

QUARTER BRICK, HALF A BRICK, WHOLE BRICK AYYYYY

 

[tigger42]

A bit long...

Eyes of hazel...it's not just you and you're not necessarily a "purist", you just grew up listening to good music. Plain and simple. thesummer when Soulja Boy's youtube phenomenon got out of control, I became pretty upset with the fact that people continued to listen to his music, eventhough he was just a gimmick.

There is no creativity in Hip-Hop, the beats are pretty much the same across the board and the lyrics convey next to nothing. Though I am not a Soulja Boy fan,what he does do is capitalize on the youngsters -- which is why the current state of Hip-Hop is where it is. He even went so far to say on the Marco Polo songw/Bow Wow -- "say da same lines but da fans arent bored of me." Now if that is not indicative of pure *******t then I don't know what is,especially since his "same lines" are hot basura.

Trends and waves will ride out not solely because they're good but because there's a following -- here, it's the youngsters. A friend of mine saidhe couldn't blame current rappers for their music because these kids nowadays just eat it up -- they know no better, the listeners don't. In addition,the rappers now do not see Hip-Hop as a creative art form, i.e. Tribe Called Quest, Leaders of the New School, Eric B. and Rakim, but rather as a paycheck.

For the sake of argument, I would assume that some, not all would say they're following what Biggie said: "If I wasn't in the rap game I'dprobably have a key knee deep in the crack game" I highly doubt it...they see Gimmick Artist (insert lame artist name that you will continue to make musicthat people listen to, i.e. Plies) - make a record, sell ringtones (Ringtone Rap - see Lil Flip) show up on MTV Cribs and then they say "I'm gonnamake a record" then BOOM -- more trash for the airwaves.

Honestly, it's a sad state and it is so damn painful listening to radio stations play the same trash songs at least twice an hour. Then there's thevisual component - music videos that take people's minds off the song and makes them focus on the Brazilian imports and butt implant/injected chicks (towhich I have no complaint

)

Anyhow, I could go on but here's just my two cents...

 

[renzo289]

i agree wit you kev...i dont *** with the new @@$ either...its mostly all garbage...EVERYBODY saying the SAME thing over a DIFFERENT beat...and the ones whoare creative, such as kanye, have egos waaaay to big to pull it off...8's was conceptually masterful...he captured a lot of emotions on that album buthis execution was terrible...but i'll give him his credit, it was ARTISTIC...NOBODY"s artistic anymore...its all about a dollar and the masses cantappreciate complex music anymore because we've all been brainwashed to accept the watered down burnette's that is hip hop today...im only 19 buti'll guarantee you'd catch me listenin to somethin prior to 2000 before u catch me listenin to the radio...


and yeah harm, 'she gotta donk' might be today's 'doin the butt', but that dont mean the quality is the same...it seems as tho every timehip hop cycles...it gets worse...you cant honestly say that in 10 years the two songs will be equally remembered...

nobody really makes timeless music anymore...in any genre for the most part...the machine has really ruined music because its not an art anymore its abusiness...

look at beyonce...she can sing her hips off...but instead of making classic music showcasing her vocal skills...she drops 'single ladies' or'diva'...who's playin that 10 years from now?

*sigh* but i digress... how i miss the good ol days...even tho i was too young to remember/appreciate most of it...

when was the last time you heard an album you could play FRONT to BACK...honestly???

*edit...yall heard B.O.B.'s 'I'll be in the sky'?

sounds like some outkast funk...

 

[rockdeep]

HArm.. I hear what you are saying.. but then I would cal that new Age Hip Hop...if its even regarded as Hip Hop at all.. and like I said before.. Yeah For me?I like to hear a Story..


Or Story telling.. Slick Rick.. Biggie.. Tupac.. I didn't say it had to be true.., I just said it had to make me believe it COULD be true ... So I can getlost in the music.

Different strokes for older and younger folks. My younger sister listens to music my parents listen to because she can't handle rap music. I actuallylisten to it and can appreciate it while Im at a Lounge Spot but never just turn to it..

Again.. Different strokes..

I can't knock Soulja Boys grind.. cause you are right.. He has the ear of SOME of the kids. cause kids we talk to in our Focus groups who aren't allkids from the Burbs think that fools wack.

Like me. lol

 

[tigger42]

Harm, I see where you're coming from as to Soulja Boy -- it is made for the youth, that's why they follow it -- I admitted that. I'm figuring yousee that I said that I give him his due, I'm not an old head like Ice-T calling him out. I used him as an example of what Hip-Hop in general is like versuswhere it was.

Your last line about relating to the present day speaks to what I said hip-hop is...the youth.

Hip-hop is about dancing and having fun, we can't expect superb creativity from every artist that comes out but back in the day there was some consistencyacross the board, and I guess that we "old heads" don't see that much that we can relate to or that the music isn't that great, period (notjust because we can't relate to it). I agree that there is good music out there but it's become harder to find it when the not so good music (what Iconsider not so good) is consistently at the forefront.

It comes down to the listener nowadays to take the extra step to hear artist XYZ - not like it - then look for artist ABC (no pun intended) who they doactually like....then understand that artist XYZ isn't the only artist out there.

 

[scott scotch]

I have a lot of varying opinions on this topic, so bare with me. lol

I think Souja Boy is a genius. I even like some of the joints I've heard from him. My problem with Soulja boy's is his content really isn't forkids. They market it to 13 year olds, but what he talks about isn't what they should be listening to. And nowadays with people no longer buying music instore, the parental sticker Tipper Gore fought for is meaningless.

Ultimately there is always going to be quality music, but you can no longer expect commercial radio or video channels to play it for you. I mean a few peoplemake it through, like a Kanye. And Gorilla Zoe has a new joint that is along the lines of a Kanye/ Kid Kudi joint (read: kinda emo), but that's about it.Rock hit it on the head when he said you have to find the "good stuff" on satelite radio these days. Or in podcasts.

Out of the XXL Freshman 10, I think Kudi, Wale and B.O.B. have the best chance of changing the direction of music. Then you have someone like Tabi, who IMO islike a non-sensical (at times) Guru from Gangstarr. Meaning part of what makes him Dope is the beat behind him.

My one problem with all the money talk right now is that we are in a recession. Rappers aren't getting big money like they used to and the fans are gettinghit hard right now. They are axing jobs like trees at a lumber yard. Be aware of what's going on, be sensitive. You can entertain without going as hard assaying you're making it rain in the strip club every night.

 

[renzo289]

in a sense ur right...hip hop is for the kids...but that dont mean you cant be young and not be creative or or have something to say...i guess im just saltythat nobody makes music for the sake of making music anymore...and that we have no choice but to listen to this crap...at least give us some variety...im moremad at the game then the players...i wouldnt knock sb for makin his shuck n jive music...he could b sellin crack...but you mean to tell me thats all i have tolisten to? and i have to like it? i just dont see why hip hop cant function like other genres...i mean look at rock...you have metal you got punk you got pop ugot alternative grunge all that...and they all co exist... y is hip hop solely represented by the youngins when they arent the only ones listenin???

you dont find it at all disappointing when you can say you came up on nas, for instance...who came up on face, who came up on krs n rakim...
and then you have your little brother/sister... who comin up on soulja boy??? come on now...and the worst thing about it is thats ALL they have...

[nas]rappers only talk about keys/how could you call yourself emcees/think about the kids you mislead/with the POISON[/nas]

[cedric the entertainer in be cool] makes me sorry for my daughter [/cedric the entertainer]

 

[scott scotch]

There are some other factors/ parts in this cycle. What's the difference in what some of the golden age of rap fans are saying from what our parentssaid when HipHop first caught the ears of the youth?

I remember my parents saying, "what the hell is that?" "why do they have to cuss?" It's wasn't for them. Some joints they liked,others they tried to not let me hear i.e. NWA.

 

[flightman]

It's all a cycle. The same thing y'all OLD heads called classics was being called trash by OLDER heads.
Stop reminiscing. The music isn't changing, you are.

 

[eyes of hazel]

Originally Posted by flightman

It's all a cycle. The same thing y'all OLD heads called classics was being called trash by OLDER heads.
Stop reminiscing. The music isn't changing, you are.

You really can post that with a straight face....

Wow.

Let's make this clear....

Who called the Furious Five, Run-DMC, Rakim, Biz, Easy-E, EPMD, DJ Quik "trash" back in the day?

R & B fans.....because the RAP music itself was fresh, brand new, and people thought it was a fad...

The quality and drive was there. Reason for the time being dubbed "the golden era".

Today...

You got HIP-HOP fans being critical, not some old dude who grew up listening to the O'Jays and is forced to consider rap.

That's the difference.

And, just FYI -- out of that list of songs I initially listed, WALE! was by far the most tolerant (although I'm still waiting on him to "beeaassssy" and kill it on the simple, non-thesaurus, metaphor every line tip).

I don't know where I would be today if I just had ONE king to depend on back in the day while growing up in D.C.

Kane was my KING. So was Rakim. So was Ice-T. So was Heavy D and the Boys. So was Public Enemy. So was James Funk. So was Chuck Brown.

Jay-Z will be 50 in 10 years, still "saving" hip-hop MUSIC with another "retirement" LP.

 

[flightman]

^ Ofcourse you would pick out the artist that withstood the test of time. I'm pretty sure there were other cats sellin records too that sucked.

The point im trying to make is that every generation frowns upon the next, whether it's music, movies, kicks, or even the state of society.

Not to go at you, but I hate the folks that be like "Well back in my day..." Listen homie this aint your day, yours came and past, now let the lilyoungins live.

 

[eyes of hazel]

^
I feel you. No argument here.

BUT just keep in mind...

You'll be on of those "folks" in about 10 more years, if not less, telling your younger relatives "Well back in my day..."

C-Y-C-L-E.

And just fyi, since I named the people who "stood out," give me an emcee/group back then that sucked "back in the day" and I'll throwyou a track of brillance he/she/they made....

 

[tigger42]

Originally Posted by eyes of hazel

^
I feel you. No argument here.

BUT just keep in mind...

You'll be on of those "folks" in about 10 more years, if not less, telling your younger relatives "Well back in my day..."

C-Y-C-L-E.

And just fyi, since I named the people who "stood out," give me an emcee/group back then that sucked "back in the day" and I'll throw you a track of brillance he/she/they made....

let's see who is named (I'm figuring this won't be a lot) and the quickness of the rebuttal

...(Jeopardy song plays as everybody waits)

 

[flightman]

LOL, I dont even pretend to be a hip hop historian.

But I'll give you MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, and Sir-mix-alot.

*puts on flame suit and enters flame resistant bubble*

Public Enemy

 

[eyes of hazel]

[Frank Lucas]
"My Man......."

Opinions are opinions...

Facts are facts.

HIStory is HIStory...

Stay tuned...

 

[fantastic4our]

Originally Posted by POSITE FIEND

* "Half a Brick" - "O.J. the Juice Man" Gucci Man

i was blastin that song on the strip at VA beach this past 4th of july, bammas was lookin at me like

i was drunk as hell that night n when i got out all i heard was dude voice in my head screamin OKAY...AY...AY...OKAY.

QUARTER BRICK, HALF A BRICK, WHOLE BRICK AYYYYY

that's an ignant +!! song but that's my joint

as for the topic at hand, eh....there are plenty of good artists out nowadays, they aren't played on the radio much. I don't even listen to the radioto be honest unless it's Steve Harvey in the morning. I'm not that old but the music of today is not really made with me in mind I feel. My reactionto what's popular is just like my dad's reaction to the stuff I play in my car so

And a lot of people have "tracks of brilliance." That doesn't mean that they're good (outside of their one song). Like what other goodsongs did Arrested Development have outside of "Mr. Wendel" and "Tennessee"?

 

[eyes of hazel]

NO flame suits needed...

But if you deny the influence of MC Hammer's "Pump It Up," Vanila Ice's "Ice Ice Baby," or Sir Mix A Lot's "My Posse OnBroadway", you taking alot of money out of hip-hop people's pockets today and recent past.

I'll leave it at that.

Let alone, all three of those tracks still crank today.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiii...

I'm about to youtube "My Posse on Broadway" now...

 

[charmcitykid]

nah, homes. u ain't trippin. "amazing" was theonly song mentioned that is really noteworthy. i must admit tho, when i'm in the mood for theignorant sh*t, who better to listen to than gucci, oj or say... L-O??

**EDIT**
gotta respect hammer (not just for that one song u referenced either, and u DEF. gotta respect sir mixalot for "posse on broadwy" alone. but i mustadmit, i was NEVER a fan "ice ice baby"

u gotta throw in cool c for glamorous life" and mc sergio for "hustla" (that might be too way back for some of yall)

 

[ghost703]

Originally Posted by POSITE FIEND

* "Half a Brick" - "O.J. the Juice Man" Gucci Man

i was blastin that song on the strip at VA beach this past 4th of july, bammas was lookin at me like

i was drunk as hell that night n when i got out all i heard was dude voice in my head screamin OKAY...AY...AY...OKAY.

QUARTER BRICK, HALF A BRICK, WHOLE BRICK AYYYYY
I was up n down south beach lastnight cranking this song with my boy from jersey who had never even heard of juiceman

by the end of the night he was singing along with it

 

[rockdeep]

Flightman..

WHile you say let the youngins live and we are livin in the past.. I have to reiterate what Kev said.

Its not WE are Jazz folks critisizing Rap...

We aren't R&B Smooth Criminals saying Todays Rap is poo Poo.

We are Hip Hop Heads who grew up IN Hip hop WITH Hip Hop critisizing Rap Music saying they are hip hop.... big Difference my man.

If you are telling me while there is STILL SOME good music I just have to hunt for it in Hip Hop... but the main source of it on the airwaves is Soulja Boy??Shoooot.

I'll stay gettin my CDs from NYC 6 to 8 months early and listenin to XM and Sirius... cause I'd rather not have to settle.

Like I said earlier. SB don't speak for alot of the Youth I talk to or know. Altho SB is smart for capitalizing on it.

 

[mytsharp]