For the Wine and Champagne Connnoisseurs

[sds45]

Dont get me wrong I'm not say Moet is absolutely horrible, I'm a fan of Dom and have a few in the cellar, but vastly superior bottles exist in the same price range of entry level Moet.
Most entry level NV Champagne from the Big Houses - Veuve, Moet, Roderer, etc... - have a HORRIBLE quality to price ratio. They are easy enough to sell by their name recognition alone so producing a quality product is irrelevant. Most are over sweetened to appease the general pops palate and lack any sort of complexity or aging potential. They are overworked, overproduced and their best fruit is reserved for their Prestige Cuvees.
Wine drinkers typically have a preference and stay within the regions they are confortable with. If the "wine snobs" you've come across don't know this about Moet, they might not be too familiar with the Champagne region, which isn't that uncommon, some "wine snobs" just don't favor Champagne and stick to reds.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah actually, most wine snobs I know are red shills.

So besides the giants like Dom, Cristal, etc. what are some good champagnes for special occassions or worth keeping stocked?

For easy to find, big house Champagne under $50 I would say NV Bollinger or NV Charles Heidsieck, but the best value in the region is in Grower Champagne. Instead of sourcing grapes form various parcels owned by different farmers like the big houses, Grower Champagne is produced by the owner of the vineyard. They have better knowledge of their own land and fruit. You also get a singular expression of land, opposed to a product that's manipulated to attain a semblance of a previous release. If you know what you're looking for the quality can far surpasses their price range and can rival some of the "giants." On the bottle, produces who grow their own grapes will always be labeled RM (Récoltant-Manipulant), this is Grower Champagne. Large houses who source their grapes opposed to growing them, are labeled NM (Négociant-Manipulant).

If you're planning on keeping some stocked I would suggest some NV Champagne for the short-term. Depending on how you prefer your Champagne (fresh, racy, and citrusy or exotic, complex, and yeasty) a good NV bottle can go for 10 years easily, a NV Krug much more. For the long-term go for vintage bottles, recent years worth cellaring are 2004 and especially 2002. These can be opened now or kept for 10-20+ years depending on the producer.

 

[madman4life]

Thanks to everyone for all the usefull information in this thread. I think we should keep this thread going as a go to source for info and opinions on various bottles of wine or champange. Especially now that it is the holiday season and everyone is attending Christmas parties and in another week ramping up for various New Years parties.

I appreciate all the info in this thread as well....I just turned 30 and def have been enjoying wine and champagne a lot more the past couple of years. I can't do all that liquor drinking anymore. Someone with some knowledge should start up an official Wine/Champagne appreciation thread a la the Cigar and Beer ones.

I agree. I recently turned 32 and like yourself I like to enjoy nice bottle of wine or champagne especially when I'm chilling with a female over at the crib.

 

[madman4life]

This is a good choice on dessert wine. It's a Port, so it is very sweet and really wouldn't go well with the main courses, but is a good compliment to chocolates and pastries at the end of the night. Plus it's 19% alcohol.

Oh really? I enjoy sweet tasting wines and champagne I may have to give this one a try. Its 19% alcohol...yeeeessshhhh

 

[based mod]

Dont get me wrong I'm not say Moet is absolutely horrible, I'm a fan of Dom and have a few in the cellar, but vastly superior bottles exist in the same price range of entry level Moet.
Most entry level NV Champagne from the Big Houses - Veuve, Moet, Roderer, etc... - have a HORRIBLE quality to price ratio. They are easy enough to sell by their name recognition alone so producing a quality product is irrelevant. Most are over sweetened to appease the general pops palate and lack any sort of complexity or aging potential. They are overworked, overproduced and their best fruit is reserved for their Prestige Cuvees.
Wine drinkers typically have a preference and stay within the regions they are confortable with. If the "wine snobs" you've come across don't know this about Moet, they might not be too familiar with the Champagne region, which isn't that uncommon, some "wine snobs" just don't favor Champagne and stick to reds.

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah actually, most wine snobs I know are red shills.

So besides the giants like Dom, Cristal, etc. what are some good champagnes for special occassions or worth keeping stocked?

For easy to find, big house Champagne under $50 I would say NV Bollinger or NV Charles Heidsieck, but the best value in the region is in Grower Champagne. Instead of sourcing grapes form various parcels owned by different farmers like the big houses, Grower Champagne is produced by the owner of the vineyard. They have better knowledge of their own land and fruit. You also get a singular expression of land, opposed to a product that's manipulated to attain a semblance of a previous release. If you know what you're looking for the quality can far surpasses their price range and can rival some of the "giants." On the bottle, produces who grow their own grapes will always be labeled RM (Récoltant-Manipulant), this is Grower Champagne. Large houses who source their grapes opposed to growing them, are labeled NM (Négociant-Manipulant).

If you're planning on keeping some stocked I would suggest some NV Champagne for the short-term. Depending on how you prefer your Champagne (fresh, racy, and citrusy or exotic, complex, and yeasty) a good NV bottle can go for 10 years easily, a NV Krug much more. For the long-term go for vintage bottles, recent years worth cellaring are 2004 and especially 2002. These can be opened now or kept for 10-20+ years depending on the producer.

So this would be good?

http://www.totalwine.com/eng/product/charles-heidsieck-brut-reserve-nv/87813750

Can't find any Grower Champage at Bevmo or Total Wine. Know of any retailers on Socal?

 

[sds45]

^ Charles Heidsieck is great, I believe they use around 40% reserve wine which really sets them apart from most big houses. If you want to try some Grower, these are in the same price range as the Heidsieck and I think these shops are in SoCal

$65.99
$62.99
$59.99
$56.99
$49.99

Also this is an extremely well made wine for the price $35.99

 

[finnns2003]

Another good question would be, how do you store your champagnes, SDS?

 

[madman4life]

Another good question would be, how do you store your champagnes, SDS?

Try these tips: http://instructions.wikihow.com/Store-Champagne

I'm sure some of the more experienced wine and champagne drinkers can expound on how to store your champagne as well.

 

[jesusshuttlesworth34]

My Sister is coming back to the States for Christmas on Monday from France.


Her and my mother toured the Veuve Champagne House in Reims, France this past year.


My mother wasn't too impressed with the tour/process.

View media item 178442

The case the bottle came in was the coolest part.



I'll have her bring some other Champagnes/Wines on Monday and I'll post them.




Best way to find out what you like is to try different things. Buy what you like, drink what you like.....not what is popular.

 

[madman4life]

My Sister is coming back to the States for Christmas on Monday from France.
Her and my mother toured the Veuve Champagne House in Reims, France this past year.
My mother wasn't too impressed with the tour/process.
View media item 178442The case the bottle came in was the coolest part.
I'll have her bring some other Champagnes/Wines on Monday and I'll post them.
Best way to find out what you like is to try different things. Buy what you like, drink what you like.....not what is popular.

NICE!!! Buying bottles directly from the winery itself has to be pretty cheap compared to what they sell for here in the states.

 

[finnns2003]

Try these tips: http://instructions.wikihow.com/Store-Champagne
I'm sure some of the more experienced wine and champagne drinkers can expound on how to store your champagne as well.

Thanks for the info, interesting.

My Sister is coming back to the States for Christmas on Monday from France.
Her and my mother toured the Veuve Champagne House in Reims, France this past year.
My mother wasn't too impressed with the tour/process.
View media item 178442The case the bottle came in was the coolest part.
I'll have her bring some other Champagnes/Wines on Monday and I'll post them.
Best way to find out what you like is to try different things. Buy what you like, drink what you like.....not what is popular.

Any reason your mom wasn't impressed? Was it dull? Not profound?

 

[mojodmonky1]

NICE!!! Buying bottles directly from the winery itself has to be pretty cheap compared to what they sell for here in the states.

in my experience, ive found it to be the opposite. whether its domestic wines or stuff abroad, everything seems to be cheaper in the stores. very strange. i think the big difference is that that wineries will often carry certain products that arent distributed through other retail channels.

 

[finnns2003]

Btw, from that article:

This article instructs that champagne bottles should be kept on their sides. However, the Comité Interprofessionnel du Vin de Champagne (CIVC) conducted a study about Champagne storage and found that it is best to store it upright. The internal pressure in the bottle from the carbonic gas protects the Champagne from oxygen. The study found that Champagne stored on its side aged more quickly due to contact with oxygen which seeped through the cork because the cork lost it elasticity through contact with the moist wine.

Looks like it's best to store champagne upright...

 

[sds45]

Btw, from that article:

This article instructs that champagne bottles should be kept on their sides. However, the Comité Interprofessionnel du Vin de Champagne (CIVC) conducted a study about Champagne storage and found that it is best to store it upright. The internal pressure in the bottle from the carbonic gas protects the Champagne from oxygen. The study found that Champagne stored on its side aged more quickly due to contact with oxygen which seeped through the cork because the cork lost it elasticity through contact with the moist wine.

Looks like it's best to store champagne upright...

Keep in mind a great majority of Champagne houses store their bottles for 10 years (some 20-30 years like the Krug Collection and Dom Œnothèque) laying down If you're storing for 2-3 years bottle position shouldn't matter. If you're storing for the long-term, upright is the way to go. What is equally, if not more, important is the temperature remaining at a consistant 10°C (50°F) to 15°C (59°F) and away from light exposure.

 

[finnns2003]

Keep in mind a great majority of Champagne houses store their bottles for 10 years (some 20-30 years like the Krug Collection and Dom Œnothèque) laying down If you're storing for 2-3 years bottle position shouldn't matter. If you're storing for the long-term, upright is the way to go. What is equally, if not more, important is the temperature remaining at a consistant 10°C (50°F) to 15°C (59°F) and away from light exposure.

Ah, didn't think about that. Is that always indicated on the bottles, if they're 10-30 years old, or do you assume that when you buy certain bottles?

 

[dankenstien88]

 

[sds45]

Keep in mind a great majority of Champagne houses store their bottles for 10 years (some 20-30 years like the Krug Collection and Dom Œnothèque) laying down If you're storing for 2-3 years bottle position shouldn't matter. If you're storing for the long-term, upright is the way to go. What is equally, if not more, important is the temperature remaining at a consistant 10°C (50°F) to 15°C (59°F) and away from light exposure.

Ah, didn't think about that. Is that always indicated on the bottles, if they're 10-30 years old, or do you assume that when you buy certain bottles?

Usually older bottles are Vintage dated opposed to the more common Non-Vintage which is a blend of different years.

View media item 179155View media item 179156

 

[jthagreat]

View media item 175126

J****

J i g g a is blocked on NT.

 

[finnns2003]

Usually older bottles are Vintage dated opposed to the more common Non-Vintage which is a blend of different years.
View media item 179155View media item 179156

Awesome. Thanks for the explanations, learned a lot.

You a fan of Rose at all?

 

[sds45]

^ Krug (NV), Dom, and Bollinger (Grand Annee) make amazing Rose. Cheaper alternatives I would go for would be H. Billiot or Rene Geoffroy, both are Grower Champagne.

 

[finnns2003]

^ Krug (NV), Dom, and Bollinger (Grand Annee) make amazing Rose. Cheaper alternatives I would go for would be H. Billiot or Rene Geoffroy, both are Grower Champagne.

Awesome, will try them out.

Let's keep this thread going, some great info in here.

 

[NCtwin]

Could you guys recommend a nice, inexpensive white wine¿

 

[sds45]

Could you guys recommend a nice, inexpensive white wine¿

I would help but that question is just way too open ended. Too many varietals and styles exist and without understanding what you favor recommending something would really just be a shot in the dark. Also price is subjective, what's inexpensive to you might be expensive to someone else.

 

[liltank0206]

I wanna get me a bottle of champagne for new years I was thinking of either dom or moet but not sure never had either. do they have a bitter or sweet taste? got a chick coming in for new years wanna have some nice champagne to drink on in the telly

 

[liltank0206]

or just give me your choices on what you guys think is better and prices would be good too dont wanna spend more than 120 on a bottle

 

[powerballin]