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- Jan 12, 2003
Who cares if you walk around your city with ice on feeling untouchable, you still suck as a artist and will never be considered a legend to the game.
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Originally Posted by red mpls
This is one of the most entertaining threads I read in a while, props to Starvin Harlem and NinjaHood for engaging in an actual dialogue and putting thought into their positions...
It seems that Starvin's distaste for Joe stems from 2 sources:
1. He sold out and follows trends
2. His music sucks
Based on this first reason, you should not like 50 who you're defending to the death, or BIG who I know you're very fond of and is in your avy. You cannot tell me that 50 isn't following trends when he's got a Timbo-produced, Timberlake-featured song on his latest album as well as Robin Thicke, a joint with Ciara, etc. This is not a far cry from GRODT? Curtis wasn't weak? C'mon man... Also, BIG even stated in an interview that he makes songs that appeal to radio, ladies, etc. and that he will go with the trends so he doesn't become obsolete. He had like 10 R&B joints on LAD- R Kelly, 112, etc. as well as Bone. He went from slangin on the corner to Frank White after OB4CL, Reasonable Doubt, etc. BIG wasn't following trends? HE ADMITTED IT! Why don't you hate these dudes? I'll admit it wasn't to the same extent but Joe's been around for 15 years, BIG was around for 4 and 50 been here for like 5... Just be consistent my dude.
As for the second reason, I haven't listened to a Joe album since JOSE but I will say that there is worse music coming out than Joe's stuff (I think). He was never great to me but he's almost always tolerable and I usually like a few of the "street" joints off his albums although this "Crack" stuff has just gone way too far. But he's not making the worst music right now.
As for NinjaHood, I respect your loyalty to Joe but some of your arguments fam... I don't know. The dude with the Kevin Willis-Joe analogy was much more accurate than the Robert Horry-Joe analogy. When has Joe ever come thru in the clutch? He was probably the worst MC in DITC, he was decent in TS and now this new southern stuff... I'm not sure what to say. He's like that dude that can contribute 12 solid minutes off the bench but doesn't do anything spectacular and is VERY rarely the x-factor. He comes out of retirement to hop on a squad hoping to win a ring...
Originally Posted by illphillip
As much as I tried to stay away from this nonsense, I had to some back in.
When I saw that this BS hit 9 pages, I figured cats was about to shoot the fair one, like in the last Joe thread, word to Haze and ninja.
But alas, it's just the last couple of posts I saw. How could ANYONE say 50 doesn't ride trends?
Does no one remember when he %$%@ on Ja Rule for signing on records, then turned around and did the same exact thing?
Originally Posted by Starvin Harlem
BIG and 50 actually have talent . . . The man gets one Timbaland beat and now he's following trends?? I mean Timbaland is an amazing producer why wouldn't he want to work with him . . . But for the most part G Unit is self contained, Curtis was 50s first time working with "known" producers, he usally uses no names and still makes hot joints, he's never been the type to run to a big name, because as he says it, he can make a hit himself. "I Get Money" is a perfect example . . . Who produced it?? . . . My point exactly . . .
As far as 50 "selling out", 50 was NEVER a hip hoppy type, he wasn't no graffitti artist, he doesn't hang out with DITC and claim to stay true to hip hop at all costs, 50 is that same commercial thug rapper he was when he came on the scene in 99 . . . He just knows how to make music people want to buy, plain and simple . . . I aint saying he's the hip hop savior, neither has he . . . But he's great at what he does, that's why he tours around the world non stop . . . If that's the rewards of falling off, I'm sure EVERYone in the game is waiting to "fall off" next . . .
As far as BIG, you should listen to the interview at the end of disc one of Life After Death . . . He answers the stuff you're questioning him about 11 years later . . .
Junior Mafia dropped in 95, the group formed in 93/94 and if you have your calender you can see that's ATLEAST a year and a half before OB4CL dropped so I don't think Biggie stole his mob persona from Ghost and Rae . . .
"Put the drugs on the shelf, naw I couldn't see it/
Scarface, King Of New York, I wanna be it/
Rap was secondary, money was necassary"
Notorious BIG - Respect (Ready To Die)
You tell me . . .
Originally Posted by RudyGay22UcoNN
Originally Posted by red mpls
This is one of the most entertaining threads I read in a while, props to Starvin Harlem and NinjaHood for engaging in an actual dialogue and putting thought into their positions...
It seems that Starvin's distaste for Joe stems from 2 sources:
1. He sold out and follows trends
2. His music sucks
Based on this first reason, you should not like 50 who you're defending to the death, or BIG who I know you're very fond of and is in your avy. You cannot tell me that 50 isn't following trends when he's got a Timbo-produced, Timberlake-featured song on his latest album as well as Robin Thicke, a joint with Ciara, etc. This is not a far cry from GRODT? Curtis wasn't weak? C'mon man... Also, BIG even stated in an interview that he makes songs that appeal to radio, ladies, etc. and that he will go with the trends so he doesn't become obsolete. He had like 10 R&B joints on LAD- R Kelly, 112, etc. as well as Bone. He went from slangin on the corner to Frank White after OB4CL, Reasonable Doubt, etc. BIG wasn't following trends? HE ADMITTED IT! Why don't you hate these dudes? I'll admit it wasn't to the same extent but Joe's been around for 15 years, BIG was around for 4 and 50 been here for like 5... Just be consistent my dude.
As for the second reason, I haven't listened to a Joe album since JOSE but I will say that there is worse music coming out than Joe's stuff (I think). He was never great to me but he's almost always tolerable and I usually like a few of the "street" joints off his albums although this "Crack" stuff has just gone way too far. But he's not making the worst music right now.
As for NinjaHood, I respect your loyalty to Joe but some of your arguments fam... I don't know. The dude with the Kevin Willis-Joe analogy was much more accurate than the Robert Horry-Joe analogy. When has Joe ever come thru in the clutch? He was probably the worst MC in DITC, he was decent in TS and now this new southern stuff... I'm not sure what to say. He's like that dude that can contribute 12 solid minutes off the bench but doesn't do anything spectacular and is VERY rarely the x-factor. He comes out of retirement to hop on a squad hoping to win a ring...
How does 50 follow trends? He doesnt just throw anybody on his albums like Joe, GRODT was his 1st album and he mainly worked with dre and em, so after a while why wouldnt he branch out to different producers such as timbaland.
Also curtis was not weak IMO, but people feel that way because they do what you just did which is compare it to GRODT.
Originally Posted by Starvin Harlem
Its not even defending 50, its just seperating !%%#++$% from real @%#+, and it pains me to see grown men struggle with that issue so often . . .
Originally Posted by Deuce King
I'm getting alot of laughs out of this thread. Can we at least stop calling Fat Joe a legend or even at the least stop referring to him as the Robery Horry of rap. With that logic, when the game is on the line you would want the ball in Horry's hands to make the game winning shot. Now think about it like this, if hip hop itself were on the line and it needed either a game winning album or a game winning single to win, would you really place that responsiblity in Fat Joe's hand?? ABSOLUTELY NOT, truth be told you wouldn't even let Fat Joe in the building even if he had money to buy a ticket to the game.
They need to treat certain rappers like horses, once you start coming in dead last after so many races, they take that horse out back and shot it in the head to take it out of its misery, the same rules should apply to Fat Joe's rap career, only we place the gun in Ninjahood's hand and let him take his favorite "so called" legend out.
i won't tell is a goodsongbeat, so it deserves all da play it gets *fixed
Any track having some guy say "YADDAMEAN" is terrible.
Any track having some guy say "YADDAMEAN" is terrible.Originally Posted by solesavage
i won't tell is a goodsongbeat, so it deserves all da play it gets *fixed
Originally Posted by Starvin Harlem
NinjaHood I'm still waitin for that Fat Joe tour . . . I'll buy you front row tickets if Fat Joe headlines a national tour . . . You have my word. 2 tickets will be sent to you if this EVER Happens . . . There's no way Fat Joe could sell out MSG NO way . . . He couldn't sell out Hammersteins upperdeck . . .
He couldn't sell out Hammersteins upperdeck . . .