Dwight Howard has a son! The mother is...

[trasoul82]

What got Flanders all fired up? Using the old "if you meet this critirea" clause to justify name-calling.

I cant believe that dudes is asking about how Dwight hit it. No#$@$# but if the girl is saying she love him then it must have went well............





Sex is the most overrated thing in this world. What is sex without love?

I'm not trying to sound cool or try to clown you or anything like that, but you sound a virgin. What is sex without love? The reason for thecontinued existence of humanity. Sex, with or without love, feels good. At its base it's an act of potential reproduction, not spiritual bonding.

Dwight's cool, but I can understand why he would catch heat. When you repeat that you are meeting a certain standard and it proves to be false, it comeswith the territory. He'll be fine. He shouldn't be upset about the criticism he's receiving. Persecution from "the world" is duly notedin the Bible.

 

[thekillerj23]

nba players have it the best, good looking groupie chicks every night, every city

 

[roscoe p wallace]

I think a lot of the hype about Dwight being a real hardcore jesus freak was based off that pre-draft special where son had some ratty drawing of the NBA logowith a cross in it and his "Ten Goals" list on his wall (seriously, dude drew like a 3 year old, big%!%% monster hands on some tiny pencil

)

But I haven't heard Dwight say one thing since hes been in the league that is judgmental to his peers/teammates. Andrew Bogut ran his mouth off about it,but Dwight hasn't said one thing, he isnt "rubbing it in our faces" as some of you said, he is just living his life to what he believes is thebest moral standard. And apparently he did something (at least once....probably a lot more) that is considered a "sin" in his religion, and now youall are jumping on it like "SEE! SEE! YOU AINT SO SPECIAL DWIGHT!", when in reality he never claimed to be "better than" anyone, he just made public that he was trying to live his life accordingto those rules.... and he messed up.... and who wouldnt.

Dude is probably THE most recognizable guy in Orlando, hes a young millionaire, and future of the most glamorous sport in the US, and hes only 22, andy'all are chastising him for not keepin his pants up, because god knows NONE OF YOU has ever tried to get some booty?

So he messed up, hes a kid, and just cause hes a Christian too doesn't mean he ever said he wouldn't mess up, it just means he essentially said he wasgoing to try his best not to, and hope for forgiveness and understanding if he did, and now y'all are going off on him just cause he made a mistake?Man !@#% that. Dwight seems like a great guy, I have heard only good things about how he treats his fans, how hevolunteers his time, and how he reaches out to the community, and if you ask me, those are the more important partsabout being a Christian than keepin your jimmy in your pants.

And I think were missin the big picture, which is Congrats to Dwight for being a new father. Everything I have heard about him tells me he will be a good dad,and his kid was born in the town hes gonna be in for a while, so hell even be around more. Props to Dwight for being a nice guy in the leauge (and for gettinwith that girl

), but at the end of the day, he certainly gets myforgiveness for making a mistake, because lord knows we all make mistakes.

 

[darthska]

I am really going to step on some major toes right here.

At least, I hope.

Especially yours, Kane.

B1LLY- you're not calling it how you've seen it; you're calling it how you've interpreted it.You've SEEN him say 'I'm a Christian' and slap a sticker on a backboard with 'Phil 4:13' on it; true, you've seen theat. But youinterpreted that as, "Oh, o.k., Dwight, I see you. You're now Reverend Howard in my mind, incapable of sinning. Thanks for letting me know a littlemore about you. Now I can call it how I see it later."

False. You've called it how you've interpreted it.

And for the rest of you...so a group of Christians act ******ed, and they now represent Christians everywhere? That's how it works? A group of Christianswake you up to try and shove the word down your throat and try to get you to come to their neat-o buffet this Sunday and won't stop talking untilyou've agreed to think about it, and that represents the whole group? Some Christians show up and picket outside of an abortion clinic, talking aboutpeople going to hell for murder and what not, and they represent the whole group?

A group of people now represents the whole?

Y'all just set the equal rights movement back like 100 years with that bull.

Save that crap about, "The hate Christians get is deserved, because they hate. The judgment they get is deserved, because they judge." Seriously? Thewhole damn group? All of 'em?

Let me spin it like this, then (and I swear, none of you oafs better even THINK about sayng that the following is how I think; you only further display yoursimple-mindedness if you even attempt that accusation): what if someone were to say, "The hate black people get is deserved, because there are a lot ofblack people charged with murder and drug possession. So they represent the whole group"? What if someone were to say that? You'd be hot, right? Well,you shouldn't be. Y'all need to stop telling KKK members to think right, because they are thinking right. A group of people is representative of thewhole group now.

Or what if someone were to say, "There are hateful, discriminatory gays, so the hate and discrimination they get is deserved as well. Those hateful gaysmean that every gay person is hateful, so gay bashing should be promoted, encouraged, and accepted... because they deserve it." Some of them are hatefuland discriminatory, so they're all hateful and discriminatory, right? Those that are hateful and discriminatory represent the whole group, right?

Sounds pretty ridiculous, right?

It should sound ridiculous, because it is freaking ridiculous.

"Oh, that's different, ska. Christians aren't born that way; they choose to be that way."

Please respond with that bull. Please. I need to know who has any sort of reasoning about them and who doesn't. And those that respond with that have noreaosning. Why? Because you're still missing the point, which is that it is asinine, ignorant, simple-minded and PREJUDICED to say... IN ANY SITUATION...that a group of people represents the whole sum of people.

It's prejudiced to say that a SMALL group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that a LARGE group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that EXACTLY HALF of a group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that a GROUP of people... represents the whole.

It's STEREOTYPING to choose characteristics fromm that group of people and apply them to the whole of people.

Y'all are stereotyping Dwight; like it or love it.

And you're prejudiced against Christians.

Wake up.

Open your minds and see the crap you're saying about a group of people.

Wake up, open your minds, and get it right.

It's just as wrong to say 'All the hate Christians get is deserved because they're hateful' as it is to say 'The discrimination gays get isdeserved because they discriminate' or 'The hate black people get is deserved because they're hateful.'

Y'all don't know Dwight, so don't act like you do. YOU said he was perfect; not him. Don't blame it on him when you find out he's notperfect, because he never said he was. He's only said that he subscribes to a set of beliefs and a religious code. It's YOUR fault that you took thatand interpreted it to mean that the only things he does wrong are cursing once a month and thinking of a girl's boobs twice a year. That's YOUR faultyou're learning otherwise, not his.

You aren't Dwight's God, so you have no right to judge him like you are his authority. What, because you've been to church before, that'ssupposed to give you some right to chastise and condemn? You've been told wrong.

P.S. I swear, let someone come through and try to accuse me of being prejudiced against black people or gays.

Let someone come through and try to say I just tried to paint black people or gays in anegative light. Stop before you start typing, whoever you are. I'm making a point, not expressing my beliefs. Well, I am expressing one belief, and thatis: we all need to be more open-minded about things we think we know, less judgmental to groups of people we condemn, and less stubborn about the stereotypeswe've imposed on those groups of people.

I am speaking on the underlying hatred that some people are o.k. with imposing on groups of their choice, and I used as an example the top two most hated,discriminated groups I could think of in this country, two groups that I constantly fight for despite being a member of neither. I've had countlessdiscussion on here attempting to right the wrong thoughts people harbor towards gays and black people, because the discrimination against them (or any group...ANY group) and the hatred towards them (or any group... ANY group) is unwarranted, bigoted, disrespectful, elementary, stubborn, and unacceptable.


P.P.S. Craftsy- thanks for being honest on your critique of Jordan. I'm glad at least someone would agree that what's wrong for one is still wrong foranother. However, I get the feeling that if you learned that Dwight married this chick and then ran around on her like MJ did Juanita, you would think Dwightwas MORE wrong than Jordan. Again, this is only an assumption of you, so forgive me in advance if it's inaccurate. But if it accurate, I disagree withthat. I can't emphasize enough the point that Christians are perceived to be perfect only by their critics, not by their own account.


P.P.S.S. Last point. Dwight brought this on himself because he goes around bragging about being a Christian? Because he's made it known that he believes inGod and practices His teachings?

Since when? Since when has he rubbed his religion in any of your faces? Putting 'Phil 4:13' on a sticker and putting it 11.5 feet in the air is rubbingreligion in your face?

False.

The fact that he professes his religion at ALL is what's uncomfortable to y'all. And that's YOUR problem; not his.

You'd rather he say nothing. How can I say that? Because he hasn't said much, andy'all got a problem with that.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I am really going to step on some major toes right here.

At least, I hope.

Especially yours, Kane.

B1LLY- you're not calling it how you've seen it; you're calling it how you've interpreted it. You've SEEN him say 'I'm a Christian' and slap a sticker on a backboard with 'Phil 4:13' on it; true, you've seen theat. But you interpreted that as, "Oh, o.k., Dwight, I see you. You're now Reverend Howard in my mind, incapable of sinning. Thanks for letting me know a little more about you. Now I can call it how I see it later."

False. You've called it how you've interpreted it.

And for the rest of you...so a group of Christians act ******ed, and they now represent Christians everywhere? That's how it works? A group of Christians wake you up to try and shove the word down your throat and try to get you to come to their neat-o buffet this Sunday and won't stop talking until you've agreed to think about it, and that represents the whole group? Some Christians show up and picket outside of an abortion clinic, talking about people going to hell for murder and what not, and they represent the whole group?

A group of people now represents the whole?

Y'all just set the equal rights movement back like 100 years with that bull.

Save that crap about, "The hate Christians get is deserved, because they hate. The judgment they get is deserved, because they judge." Seriously? The whole damn group? All of 'em?

Let me spin it like this, then (and I swear, none of you oafs better even THINK about sayng that the following is how I think; you only further display your simple-mindedness if you even attempt that accusation): what if someone were to say, "The hate black people get is deserved, because there are a lot of black people charged with murder and drug possession. So they represent the whole group"? What if someone were to say that? You'd be hot, right? Well, you shouldn't be. Y'all need to stop telling KKK members to think right, because they are thinking right. A group of people is representative of the whole group now.

Or what if someone were to say, "There are hateful, discriminatory gays, so the hate and discrimination they get is deserved as well. Those hateful gays mean that every gay person is hateful, so gay bashing should be promoted, encouraged, and accepted... because they deserve it." Some of them are hateful and discriminatory, so they're all hateful and discriminatory, right? Those that are hateful and discriminatory represent the whole group, right?

Sounds pretty ridiculous, right?

It should sound ridiculous, because it is freaking ridiculous.

"Oh, that's different, ska. Christians aren't born that way; they choose to be that way."

Please respond with that bull. Please. I need to know who has any sort of reasoning about them and who doesn't. And those that respond with that have no reaosning. Why? Because you're still missing the point, which is that it is asinine, ignorant, simple-minded and PREJUDICED to say... IN ANY SITUATION... that a group of people represents the whole sum of people.

It's prejudiced to say that a SMALL group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that a LARGE group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that EXACTLY HALF of a group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that a GROUP of people... represents the whole.

It's STEREOTYPING to choose characteristics fromm that group of people and apply them to the whole of people.

Y'all are stereotyping Dwight; like it or love it.

And you're prejudiced against Christians.

Wake up.

Open your minds and see the crap you're saying about a group of people.

Wake up, open your minds, and get it right.

It's just as wrong to say 'All the hate Christians get is deserved because they're hateful' as it is to say 'The discrimination gays get is deserved because they discriminate' or 'The hate black people get is deserved because they're hateful.'

Y'all don't know Dwight, so don't act like you do. YOU said he was perfect; not him. Don't blame it on him when you find out he's not perfect, because he never said he was. He's only said that he subscribes to a set of beliefs and a religious code. It's YOUR fault that you took that and interpreted it to mean that the only things he does wrong are cursing once a month and thinking of a girl's boobs twice a year. That's YOUR fault you're learning otherwise, not his.

You aren't Dwight's God, so you have no right to judge him like you are his authority. What, because you've been to church before, that's supposed to give you some right to chastise and condemn? You've been told wrong.

P.S. I swear, let someone come through and try to accuse me of being prejudiced against black people or gays.

Let someone come through and try to say I just tried to paint black people or gays in a negative light. Stop before you start typing, whoever you are. I'm making a point, not expressing my beliefs. Well, I am expressing one belief, and that is: we all need to be more open-minded about things we think we know, less judgmental to groups of people we condemn, and less stubborn about the stereotypes we've imposed on those groups of people.

I am speaking on the underlying hatred that some people are o.k. with imposing on groups of their choice, and I used as an example the top two most hated, discriminated groups I could think of in this country, two groups that I constantly fight for despite being a member of neither. I've had countless discussion on here attempting to right the wrong thoughts people harbor towards gays and black people, because the discrimination against them (or any group... ANY group) and the hatred towards them (or any group... ANY group) is unwarranted, bigoted, disrespectful, elementary, stubborn, and unacceptable.


P.P.S. Craftsy- thanks for being honest on your critique of Jordan. I'm glad at least someone would agree that what's wrong for one is still wrong for another. However, I get the feeling that if you learned that Dwight married this chick and then ran around on her like MJ did Juanita, you would think Dwight was MORE wrong than Jordan. Again, this is only an assumption of you, so forgive me in advance if it's inaccurate. But if it accurate, I disagree with that. I can't emphasize enough the point that Christians are perceived to be perfect only by their critics, not by their own account.


P.P.S.S. Last point. Dwight brought this on himself because he goes around bragging about being a Christian? Because he's made it known that he believes in God and practices His teachings?

Since when? Since when has he rubbed his religion in any of your faces? Putting 'Phil 4:13' on a sticker and putting it 11.5 feet in the air is rubbing religion in your face?

False.

The fact that he professes his religion at ALL is what's uncomfortable to y'all. And that's YOUR problem; not his.

You'd rather he say nothing. How can I say that? Because he hasn't said much, and y'all got a problem with that.

. Not one word in there that wasn't true. As a christian Iunderstand there are some people that are bible thumpers blah blah. But that doesn't mean that all of them are gonna do that. More often than not you couldbe sittin next to, working with, talking to one and not even know. But when a public figure is and he makes a mistake then he gets crucified. And like you saidit's because people for some reason just can't handle the fact that he decides to live his life that way. I find it so funny how people claim thatchristians are so hypocritical when in fact it's them.

 

[chozin87]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I am really going to step on some major toes right here.

At least, I hope.

Especially yours, Kane.

B1LLY- you're not calling it how you've seen it; you're calling it how you've interpreted it. You've SEEN him say 'I'm a Christian' and slap a sticker on a backboard with 'Phil 4:13' on it; true, you've seen theat. But you interpreted that as, "Oh, o.k., Dwight, I see you. You're now Reverend Howard in my mind, incapable of sinning. Thanks for letting me know a little more about you. Now I can call it how I see it later."

False. You've called it how you've interpreted it.

And for the rest of you...so a group of Christians act ******ed, and they now represent Christians everywhere? That's how it works? A group of Christians wake you up to try and shove the word down your throat and try to get you to come to their neat-o buffet this Sunday and won't stop talking until you've agreed to think about it, and that represents the whole group? Some Christians show up and picket outside of an abortion clinic, talking about people going to hell for murder and what not, and they represent the whole group?

A group of people now represents the whole?

Y'all just set the equal rights movement back like 100 years with that bull.

Save that crap about, "The hate Christians get is deserved, because they hate. The judgment they get is deserved, because they judge." Seriously? The whole damn group? All of 'em?

Let me spin it like this, then (and I swear, none of you oafs better even THINK about sayng that the following is how I think; you only further display your simple-mindedness if you even attempt that accusation): what if someone were to say, "The hate black people get is deserved, because there are a lot of black people charged with murder and drug possession. So they represent the whole group"? What if someone were to say that? You'd be hot, right? Well, you shouldn't be. Y'all need to stop telling KKK members to think right, because they are thinking right. A group of people is representative of the whole group now.

Or what if someone were to say, "There are hateful, discriminatory gays, so the hate and discrimination they get is deserved as well. Those hateful gays mean that every gay person is hateful, so gay bashing should be promoted, encouraged, and accepted... because they deserve it." Some of them are hateful and discriminatory, so they're all hateful and discriminatory, right? Those that are hateful and discriminatory represent the whole group, right?

Sounds pretty ridiculous, right?

It should sound ridiculous, because it is freaking ridiculous.

"Oh, that's different, ska. Christians aren't born that way; they choose to be that way."

Please respond with that bull. Please. I need to know who has any sort of reasoning about them and who doesn't. And those that respond with that have no reaosning. Why? Because you're still missing the point, which is that it is asinine, ignorant, simple-minded and PREJUDICED to say... IN ANY SITUATION... that a group of people represents the whole sum of people.

It's prejudiced to say that a SMALL group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that a LARGE group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that EXACTLY HALF of a group of people represents the whole.

It's prejudiced to say that a GROUP of people... represents the whole.

It's STEREOTYPING to choose characteristics fromm that group of people and apply them to the whole of people.

Y'all are stereotyping Dwight; like it or love it.

And you're prejudiced against Christians.

Wake up.

Open your minds and see the crap you're saying about a group of people.

Wake up, open your minds, and get it right.

It's just as wrong to say 'All the hate Christians get is deserved because they're hateful' as it is to say 'The discrimination gays get is deserved because they discriminate' or 'The hate black people get is deserved because they're hateful.'

Y'all don't know Dwight, so don't act like you do. YOU said he was perfect; not him. Don't blame it on him when you find out he's not perfect, because he never said he was. He's only said that he subscribes to a set of beliefs and a religious code. It's YOUR fault that you took that and interpreted it to mean that the only things he does wrong are cursing once a month and thinking of a girl's boobs twice a year. That's YOUR fault you're learning otherwise, not his.

You aren't Dwight's God, so you have no right to judge him like you are his authority. What, because you've been to church before, that's supposed to give you some right to chastise and condemn? You've been told wrong.

P.S. I swear, let someone come through and try to accuse me of being prejudiced against black people or gays.

Let someone come through and try to say I just tried to paint black people or gays in a negative light. Stop before you start typing, whoever you are. I'm making a point, not expressing my beliefs. Well, I am expressing one belief, and that is: we all need to be more open-minded about things we think we know, less judgmental to groups of people we condemn, and less stubborn about the stereotypes we've imposed on those groups of people.

I am speaking on the underlying hatred that some people are o.k. with imposing on groups of their choice, and I used as an example the top two most hated, discriminated groups I could think of in this country, two groups that I constantly fight for despite being a member of neither. I've had countless discussion on here attempting to right the wrong thoughts people harbor towards gays and black people, because the discrimination against them (or any group... ANY group) and the hatred towards them (or any group... ANY group) is unwarranted, bigoted, disrespectful, elementary, stubborn, and unacceptable.


P.P.S. Craftsy- thanks for being honest on your critique of Jordan. I'm glad at least someone would agree that what's wrong for one is still wrong for another. However, I get the feeling that if you learned that Dwight married this chick and then ran around on her like MJ did Juanita, you would think Dwight was MORE wrong than Jordan. Again, this is only an assumption of you, so forgive me in advance if it's inaccurate. But if it accurate, I disagree with that. I can't emphasize enough the point that Christians are perceived to be perfect only by their critics, not by their own account.


P.P.S.S. Last point. Dwight brought this on himself because he goes around bragging about being a Christian? Because he's made it known that he believes in God and practices His teachings?

Since when? Since when has he rubbed his religion in any of your faces? Putting 'Phil 4:13' on a sticker and putting it 11.5 feet in the air is rubbing religion in your face?

False.

The fact that he professes his religion at ALL is what's uncomfortable to y'all. And that's YOUR problem; not his.

You'd rather he say nothing. How can I say that? Because he hasn't said much, and y'all got a problem with that.

. Not one word in there that wasn't true. As a christian I understand there are some people that are bible thumpers blah blah. But that doesn't mean that all of them are gonna do that. More often than not you could be sittin next to, working with, talking to one and not even know. But when a public figure is and he makes a mistake then he gets crucified. And like you said it's because people for some reason just can't handle the fact that he decides to live his life that way. I find it so funny how people claim that christians are so hypocritical when in fact it's them.

I def appreciate this post, I was getting to the point where I was gonna have to write a dissertation to explain some things. Without reading the entiredissertation from the ska homie...I'll just say people need to stop holding people they don't know to standards in general. You're not here tojudge anybody

 

[supersaiyan415]

craftsy do you post on covers by any chance?

 

[jaydubh11]

Anyways...
Congrats to Dwight on the newborn child.

 

[jiggajayz12469]

Going raw

 

[5am6oody72]

you DON'T wanna go there bro.... been going to church ever since i could talk and yes i know how MOST christians are. the last thing i wanna hear out of a christian's mouth is questioning someone else about judging people...




What denomination of church did you attend? There do exist some churches where the attitude you are seemingly accusing all Christians of having is veryprevalent, so I'm not trying to attack you or say that it's your fault for having the image of Christians that you do. It could easily have beenpropagated by your church background.



Look, I've been to all kinds of churches and heard all kinds of different messages, but basically it comes down to this:



We are all humans, and thus we are all sinners. We have ALL sinned, and we will all continue to sin. Salvation comes in admitting that you fall short ofGod's glory by sinning and won't ever be able to escape sin. That's why Jesus died on the cross, so that we don't have to be perfect (becausethat's impossible), all we have to do is accept Christ's gift. It's not about sitting around and saying "Oh look at us, we are so pious andmake no mistakes, unlike all these other vermin." It's about recognizing the fact that, "Hey, we are JUST like them. Thank goodness we have Godto help us better ourselves and to forgive us for all the crap we've done." THIS is why you have obnoxious people who sometimes shove Christianity inyour face; they want to share it with you. It's not because they think they're better than you and want to tell you how to live your life. If it annoysyou, I'm sorry. But you can't fault people too much for having good intentions with their hearts in the right place. YES there are some people whothink they're better than you and want to tell you how to live your life. But just like Ska pointed out, you can't place judgment on every Christianjust because a few of them have that attitude.



The reason the biggest hypocrites are in church is because that's where the most potential to be a hypocrite lies. If somebody said, "Hey you knowwhat, I think sex before marriage is wrong," and then goes out and has sex before marriage, well that would make him a huge hypocrite. Of course a lot ofpeople who don't go to church don't share the view that premarital sex is wrong, so when they go out and do it they aren't hypocrites. Not too manypeople are going to be hypocrites in reverse fashion. I doubt you'd call somebody out for advocating sex before marriage and then not doing it, because itdoesn't really happen. And when it does, nobody cares.



The bottom line in this case is I just see it as a chance for people to jump all over Dwight for something that isn't a big deal at all to most people. Isit a sin in God's eyes? Yes. But God still loves him just as much as he did before, and he forgives him for it if Dwight asks for forgiveness.

 

[nitzski]

I went to College with her, nice girl...

 

[nitzski]

Just went back and read through this entire post, sadly there's a TON of ignorance here on Niketalk, I'll chalk most of it up to youthful inexperience.Ska great post probably couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[noblekane]

ska i am not gonna read all that on a saturday night. break down for the lazy people like me

 

[pharelfor3]

i'd beat.....





that's all

 

[craftsy21]

Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan415

craftsy do you post on covers by any chance?

Now and again - yes. Haven't been there in awhile though.

P.P.S. Craftsy- thanks for being honest on your critique of Jordan. I'm glad at least someone would agree that what's wrong for one is still wrong for another. However, I get the feeling that if you learned that Dwight married this chick and then ran around on her like MJ did Juanita, you would think Dwight was MORE wrong than Jordan. Again, this is only an assumption of you, so forgive me in advance if it's inaccurate. But if it accurate, I disagree with that.
The action itself would not be MORE wrong - but the surrounding circumstances would certainly be more interesting, wouldn't they? It's nobig deal when you find out joe schmoe is hooking up with male prostitutes down the street every week... But it's certainly a big deal when the leader of amulti-thousand person church in colorado who openly bashes the homosexual lifestyle in his sermons and in interviews turns out to be doing the same thing,right? Is one action worse than another? Honestly - i don't really care, i'm not all that affected by it either way and i don't really care ifdudes are hooking up with other dudes - i don't think of it as "wrong" at all.. But there is certainly going to be more backlash (and deservedlyso) when somebody looks like a huge hypocrite about their actions.

Is Howard being a huge hypocrite? I guess that's the main question of this thread.. just how devout was he, and how public did he make his religiousbeliefs known? If hardly at all, than this really isn't that big of a deal to most people, self included.. However, if he's been preaching hisreligion and spreading the word of god every week he gets the chance, he's going to hear much more about it.

I don't think anybody in here really gives a damn about the "sin"... it's more about the events leading up to it, and if a person'sactions match up with their words.

I can't emphasize enough the point that Christians are perceived to be perfect only by their critics, not by their own account.
I understand this - i don't mean to overgeneralize, but you also have to understand it's much easier to generalize a group of people whoall claim to hold a certain set of beliefs than it is to generalize a race of people with all different sets of beliefs.. I'm not sure that example yougave about black people really holds true, since race has nothing to do with morality.. but religion has everything to do with it.... and that's the onlyway i've seen people in here generalizing christians, is based on morality..

Whatever though - let's stick to sports in this forum, shall we?

 

[you big dummy]

 

[darthska]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

P.P.S. Craftsy- thanks for being honest on your critique of Jordan. I'm glad at least someone would agree that what's wrong for one is still wrong for another. However, I get the feeling that if you learned that Dwight married this chick and then ran around on her like MJ did Juanita, you would think Dwight was MORE wrong than Jordan. Again, this is only an assumption of you, so forgive me in advance if it's inaccurate. But if it accurate, I disagree with that.

The action itself would not be MORE wrong - but the surrounding circumstances would certainly be more interesting, wouldn't they? It's no big deal when you find out joe schmoe is hooking up with male prostitutes down the street every week... But it's certainly a big deal when the leader of a multi-thousand person church in colorado who openly bashes the homosexual lifestyle in his sermons and in interviews turns out to be doing the same thing, right? Is one action worse than another? Honestly - i don't really care, i'm not all that affected by it either way and i don't really care if dudes are hooking up with other dudes - i don't think of it as "wrong" at all.. But there is certainly going to be more backlash (and deservedly so) when somebody looks like a huge hypocrite about their actions.

Is Howard being a huge hypocrite? I guess that's the main question of this thread.. just how devout was he, and how public did he make his religious beliefs known? If hardly at all, than this really isn't that big of a deal to most people, self included.. However, if he's been preaching his religion and spreading the word of god every week he gets the chance, he's going to hear much more about it.

I don't think anybody in here really gives a damn about the "sin"... it's more about the events leading up to it, and if a person's actions match up with their words.

I can't emphasize enough the point that Christians are perceived to be perfect only by their critics, not by their own account.
I understand this - i don't mean to overgeneralize, but you also have to understand it's much easier to generalize a group of people who all claim to hold a certain set of beliefs than it is to generalize a race of people with all different sets of beliefs.. I'm not sure that example you gave about black people really holds true, since race has nothing to do with morality.. but religion has everything to do with it.... and that's the only way i've seen people in here generalizing christians, is based on morality..

Whatever though - let's stick to sports in this forum, shall we?

There's a difference between accountability and judgment, between disappointment and judgment. One of the ways I've always explainedaccountability is simply saying, "Bro, you shouldn't be doing this. You make your own choices, but have you really thought this one through? Idon't think you have, becuase I now that you know that this is wrong. Do what you know is right, man."

That's accountability, and there's no judgment in that at all.

However, there is judgment in, "Ha! I knew it!

You ain'tperfect, fool, trying to act like you're Johnny B. Good or something. Idiot. I knew it."

That's completely different, and no one but no one has a right to take that attitude with someone else. Christians don't have a right to be like thattowards each other, Christians don't have a right to be like that towards people who aren't Christian, people who aren't Christian don't have aright to be like that towards Christians, and people who aren't Christians don't have a right to be like that towards people who aren't Christians.

Accountability is productive and helpful, and it's simply an example of one person caring for another; judgment is hateful, where the other person'sbest interest are NOT in the mind of the person judging.

And like I said, there's also a difference between disappointment and judgment. There's nothing wrong with, "Man, how could you do this? I lookedup to you. You really let me down here." That's just genuine disappointment. But saying something like, "How could you do this, you fakeChristian? I though you were supposed to be all righteous? Yeah right. You're just a big fat sinner. Sinner." That's (again) just hateful,disrespectful, and no one has a right to come off like that.

And like 5am6oody said, Christians who do something like this WILL be seen as hypocrites, because we subscribe toa set of beliefs that has restrictions; in other words, there's more that we are not supposed to do, so there's more opportunity for us to fail. Butthat failure should not be a reflection of insincerity, fake Christianity, hypocrisy, or be used as a means for disrespectful judgment.

If there was this one preacher who was world-renowned, constantly preaching against homosexuality, would it be more interesting if we all learned that he wasgay?

Yes.

But I still wouldn't judge him.

Honestly, I wouldn't. I'm not perfect, so there definitely exists a possibility that something like that could happen and I find myself thinking/sayingsomething like, "Man, what an idiot. Good job, preacher man! Idiot," but that's really just not me.

And I've compelled many to take that same understanding.

None of us is perfect.

It's just unfortunate that when people like Dwight screw up, A) everyone knows about it (because he's a popular figure), B) people want to judge him,like they have some right (you even used 'deservedly so' in your reply I just quoted). No one has the right to judge (Well, I do believe in God, so Ican say 'No one except God has the right to judge,' but you might not believe the same way I do, so that's why I usually leave statements like thatas, 'No one has the right to judge another.')

 

[craftsy21]

No one has the right to judge

personally - i'm going to judge everybody, and so will everyone else.

If somebody rapes my mother, i'm not going to say "well i can't judge him for that, i don't know him that well"... Hell no, i will judgeevery person and every action and while it may not mean a thing to them or me in the long run, and while i may never say such things out loud, i will neverpretend that I am just indifferent to the actions of other people.. that's silly.

But again - i'm not trying to turn this into a big religion debate - the question at hand is, how much did dwight howard push his religion and is he now ahypocrite? I said yes.. you guys seem to think no. Let's just leave it at that and agree to disagree.

Now - there's two big playoff games on TV today, let's get back to being simple sports fans shall we?

 

[darthska]

Sorry if I seem unwilling to let this go, but this really is a very important issue to me.

I say that no one has the RIGHT to judge; not 'No one will ever judge.'

I understand that people do; I understand that I judge people.

I'm just saying it's not right, because none of us are God. But there WILL be circumstances where we give in to our human nature and wecondemn/criticie/chastise the actions of other people. Certainly, if your mother were raped by someone, I would be worried about you if youweren'tjudgmental towards the offender; I would wonder if youreally loved your mom,or I'd be worried that maybe you are so emotionally dead that nothing bothersyou, even someone raping your mother. Heck yeah, I would expect you to be judgmental in that situation.

Now... look at what Dwight Howard has done to the people in here to warrant being judged by them.



If someone rapes your mother, you're judgmental towards that person.

Understood.



If someone youve never met says they're a Christian a couple times a year in random post-game interviews and never puts anyone else down, just professes acouple times a year that he's a believer in God, and then he has a child with a woman he's not married to, you're judgmental towards that person.

Not understood.

 

[solemate96]

I thought he didn't believe in premarital sex or something. Ban't ball it.

 

[franchise3]

Dwight Howard is not your typical teenager to say the least. How many 19yr. olds are among the best in the world at their occupation or the job they aspire to have? With Dwight Howard, it just happens to be basketball, with Dwight Howard's quiet mannerisms and Christian background Dwight Howard is far from the typical NBA player also, such as choosing the Bible over hip-hop music for a point if interest and seeking humility instead of being a loudmouth.

To illustrate where Dwight Howard 's thoughts lie, all one would have to do is take a look at Dwight Howard's room at his parents home, on his wall are three things...a wooden holy cross, a framed copy of the Ten Commandments, and his personal commandments which serve as a reminder to stay true to Dwight Howard's faith and vision, on top of all this Dwight Howard is a wonderful all around talent, possessing size(6ft10) and strength 255lbs.) and the ability to run like a deer. In the next 5 years, Dwight Howard will become one of the best players in the NBA, Dwight Howard already is one of the best people.

http://www.dwighthoward.com/dwighthoward082305.htm

It's just when you try to portray yourself one way (religious, righteous, I live my life through the bible (which is fine)) but down the road engage inpremarital sex (something the bible doesn't condone), of course people are going to pop up and say, "Wait a minute..."

 

[doublejs07]

And then there was one...

(well, I guess two if you count that bear he used to wear on his head when sitting on the bench)

 

[franchise3]

 

[darthska]

Dwight Howard is not your typical teenager to say the least. How many 19yr. olds are among the best in the world at their occupation or the job they aspire to have? With Dwight Howard, it just happens to be basketball, with Dwight Howard's quiet mannerisms and Christian background Dwight Howard is far from the typical NBA player also, such as choosing the Bible over hip-hop music for a point if interest and seeking humility instead of being a loudmouth.

To illustrate where Dwight Howard 's thoughts lie, all one would have to do is take a look at Dwight Howard's room at his parents home, on his wall are three things...a wooden holy cross, a framed copy of the Ten Commandments, and his personal commandments which serve as a reminder to stay true to Dwight Howard's faith and vision, on top of all this Dwight Howard is a wonderful all around talent, possessing size(6ft10) and strength 255lbs.) and the ability to run like a deer. In the next 5 years, Dwight Howard will become one of the best players in the NBA, Dwight Howard already is one of the best people.

franchise3:

---

http://www.dwighthoward.com/dwighthoward082305.htm

It's just when you try to portray yourself one way (religious, righteous, I live my life through the bible (which is fine)) but down the road engage in premarital sex (something the bible doesn't condone), of course people are going to pop up and say, "Wait a minute..."

"... he's not perfect?"

That's how that last sentence you started should be finished by anyone.

"Wait a minute... he's not perfect?"

There's nothing wrong with people thinking that.

But that's not what people are thinking.

"Wait a minute... he's not a Christian.

What ahypocrite."

That's what people are thinking.

Like I've said, repeated, reiterated, and said some more in this thread: it's Y'ALL'S fault that you're learning that he's not perfect.You guys thought that A) he was perfect (or trying to get you to believe he's perfect), or B) the only things wrong he's capable of doing are thingslike cussing a couple times a year and thinking about boobies once a year.

If it's A), that's your fault for thinking he was perfect, and your fault for thinking that he was trying to get you to think he was perfect. All hehas ever tried to do was let his fans now where his religious beliefs lie.

If it's B), that's your fault for thinking he was more/less human than you, like it's impossible for him to do the same things you do.

 

[franchise3]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Dwight Howard is not your typical teenager to say the least. How many 19yr. olds are among the best in the world at their occupation or the job they aspire to have? With Dwight Howard, it just happens to be basketball, with Dwight Howard's quiet mannerisms and Christian background Dwight Howard is far from the typical NBA player also, such as choosing the Bible over hip-hop music for a point if interest and seeking humility instead of being a loudmouth.

To illustrate where Dwight Howard 's thoughts lie, all one would have to do is take a look at Dwight Howard's room at his parents home, on his wall are three things...a wooden holy cross, a framed copy of the Ten Commandments, and his personal commandments which serve as a reminder to stay true to Dwight Howard's faith and vision, on top of all this Dwight Howard is a wonderful all around talent, possessing size(6ft10) and strength 255lbs.) and the ability to run like a deer. In the next 5 years, Dwight Howard will become one of the best players in the NBA, Dwight Howard already is one of the best people.

franchise3:

---

http://www.dwighthoward.com/dwighthoward082305.htm

It's just when you try to portray yourself one way (religious, righteous, I live my life through the bible (which is fine)) but down the road engage in premarital sex (something the bible doesn't condone), of course people are going to pop up and say, "Wait a minute..."

"... he's not perfect?"

That's how that last sentence you started should be finished by anyone.

"Wait a minute... he's not perfect?"

There's nothing wrong with people thinking that.

But that's not what people are thinking.

"Wait a minute... he's not a Christian.

What a hypocrite."

That's what people are thinking.

Like I've said, repeated, reiterated, and said some more in this thread: it's Y'ALL'S fault that you're learning that he's not perfect. You guys thought that A) he was perfect (or trying to get you to believe he's perfect), or B) the only things wrong he's capable of doing are things like cussing a couple times a year and thinking about boobies once a year.

If it's A), that's your fault for thinking he was perfect, and your fault for thinking that he was trying to get you to think he was perfect. All he has ever tried to do was let his fans now where his religious beliefs lie.

If it's B), that's your fault for thinking he was more/less human than you, like it's impossible for him to do the same things you do.

So I say, drugs are bad. I don't believe in drugs.

..then one day you find me smoking a joint.

You're first thought is, "Wait a minute ...... he's not perfect?"