Conditional contracts: we need more of them in sports

[daytona 5000]

Originally Posted by LifeLessons

only thing i hate is when players play super hard during their contract year and then sign a big deal and give up....every bum you see w/ a big contract played well the year before...then stop caring after

 

[wisconsin 4 life]

Jeff Suppan is making 12.75 mil this year with a 5-8 record and 5.27era and just gave up 10 runs to the Nationals last night.
Bill Hall is making 6.925 million this year with a lovely .202 batting average.
These 2 "players" make up 1/4th of the Brewers payroll.

And I love Dan Gadzuric for the Bucks. 3.5ppg and 3rpg the last 2 seasons while making 6+ mil a year for each. And he'll make 7.25 this season.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by koolbarbone

A more realistic solution would be to just offer shorter contracts.

Yep.

Because frankly, I don't agree with "punishing" (for lack of a better word right now) the players.

Look, you guys act like most of these players didn't pay their dues already. You go through AAU, high-school, NCAA, summer practices, street-ball,organized ball, etc... That's WORK, yo. You're telling me after all of that work, these guys aren't entitled to some sort of pay-off?

Some people go to school and get their associate's, their bachelor's, master's, doctorate's, etc. That is SERIOUS work. You're gonna tellme all that work they put in, they aren't entitled or deserving of some sort of pay-off too?

These ball-players put in work because this is the profession they chose to follow. And this is their livelihood. This is how they support themselves and theirfamilies. Please tell me why they shouldn't try to make the most amount of money possible in the shortest amount of time?

Why should they say "nah, don't pay me x amount of money. i'm good"?

The owners have all the power. Blame them for bidding against themselves and offering these insane contracts.

 

[bijald0331]

^ I agree. I am in no favor of giving more power to these owners. Players deserve everything they get. They are the product and people come to see them.Conditional contracts would be a step back. Shorter, yet guaranteed, contracts are a much better solution. It rewards improved play and gets the player andteam out of a bad contract quicker.

 

[cincoseisdos]

Originally Posted by SHUGES


The owners have all the power. Blame them for bidding against themselves and offering these insane contracts.

Thank you. That's all that needs to be said. Close the thread. OP edit your initial post in this thread to just this quote.

 

[0cks]

Imagine if Eddy Curry had to ball out just to eat?

 

[andrew630]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

I NaSmatic I:

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Player unions won't allow it.

I think the NBA player's union is so bad for the NBA.
you wouldnt think so if you're a nba player trying to support a family.

you're not going to have players sign contracts of their actual worth. they are gonna milk every possible penny they can. having a inflated contractdoesn't make them bad people, pretty smart in my book.

 

[size twelve]

i can't believe people are coming down on the side of the owners.


as stephon said, the knicks are like 3% of cablevision's business.


mark cuban regularly tips teams the maximum allowed $3 mil cash in trades..

 

[addictedtofreshkicks]

Originally Posted by TH0MAS CR0WN

100% agree

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by size twelve

i can't believe people are coming down on the side of the owners.


as stephon said, the knicks are like 3% of cablevision's business.

Exactly. The owners are the ones who sexually assault the fans.

Why do you think they get so reckless with their offers to the players?? Cuz they know they will simply raise ticket prices to offset that max deal they justoffered.

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by SHUGES

Originally Posted by size twelve

i can't believe people are coming down on the side of the owners.


as stephon said, the knicks are like 3% of cablevision's business.

Exactly. The owners are the ones who sexually assault the fans.

Why do you think they get so reckless with their offers to the players?? Cuz they know they will simply raise ticket prices to offset that max deal they just offered.

Co-sign. I don't get how anyone can say that players are overpaid. Even if they suck, owners are still cakin' off of them (recessionexcluded).

 

[darthska]

SHUGES:

---

Look, you guys act like most of these players didn't pay their dues already. You go through AAU, high-school, NCAA, summer practices, street-ball, organized ball, etc... That's WORK, yo. You're telling me after all of that work, these guys aren't entitled to some sort of pay-off?
If your contract is set up for me to only pay you 2 million a year once your numbers drop to 5ppg when they were 17ppg at the time of the contractsigning, you'd have to be a stingy doofus to say that 2 million dollars a year is not a payoff. Two million to play a game you love after your numbersdropped off DRAMATICALLY? That's more than fair, and a couple million is still a nice payoff, but not more than you deserve.

Andrew630:

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23ska909red02:

---

I NaSmatic I:

---

Player unions won't allow it.
I think the NBA player's union is so bad for the NBA.
you wouldnt think so if you're a nba player trying to support a family.
I'm supporting a family on < $50k a year; I think I could do it with even the minimum NBA contract.

'Yeah, but once they get to be millionaires, they live a different lifestyle.'

Then, just like me, they should know to live within their means. There's a very specific reason why I don't own a Corvette, and that reason is thatI'm not positive I could afford the payments for the next few years. I know I can afford the payments I'm making for the vehicles I'm making, andany person in the NBA can make the same decision. Saying 'I'm used to this lavish lifestyle, and even though my numbers dropped, I have a family tosupport, man! Show me the money!' is both irresponsible, in my opinion.

Live according to what you know is coming in, not according to the highest paycheck you've ever gotten.

 

[durden7]

Theres wayy too many problems with a system like that. It just wouldnt work.

 

[darthska]

Durden7:

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Theres wayy too many problems with a system like that. It just wouldnt work.
I think most people in agreement with me also agree with me that it wouldn't work.

This is more of a vent thread than a realistic suggestion.

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

How do you quantify how much some players are worth though? Guys like Shane Battier who do much more than their #'s suggest would be shafted. And what ifthe reason for a dropoff is not the players fault? What if a guy gets injured or has to take a reduced role? What if the team wants the player to tone down hisshooting and concentrate more on defense and rebounding, causing his numbers to plummet? Or hell, what about cheap owners benching players or reducing theirminutes or playing them out of position to artificially deflate their numbers so they can use that as an argument to pay them less? Long contracts are theproblem, not guaranteed contracts.

 

[shuges]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

SHUGES:

---

Look, you guys act like most of these players didn't pay their dues already. You go through AAU, high-school, NCAA, summer practices, street-ball, organized ball, etc... That's WORK, yo. You're telling me after all of that work, these guys aren't entitled to some sort of pay-off?

If your contract is set up for me to only pay you 2 million a year once your numbers drop to 5ppg when they were 17ppg at the time of the contract signing, you'd have to be a stingy doofus to say that 2 million dollars a year is not a payoff. Two million to play a game you love after your numbers dropped off DRAMATICALLY? That's more than fair, and a couple million is still a nice payoff, but not more than you deserve.
POP right above me summed up pretty much what I was gonna say.

Like that Gadzuric comment... If I remember correctly, Dan got hurt. That wasn't necessarily his fault.

Look at Boozer and Millsap in Utah. Carlos got hurt, Paul stepped in and did his thing. And now Utah wants to get rid of Booz. So if Boozer remains with theJazz and goes to the bench b/c Utah figures he won't be with the team past this year, is that his fault he'll be warming the bench earning 12 mil (or15 mil or whatever amount)?

Bynum signed a huge contract... got hurt... and is working his way back. If he never regains the touch he had before injury, is that his fault?

Injuries in sports is EXACTLY why these players try to get as much as they can as fast as they can.

I think you guys are letting a few bad apples ruin the bunch.

 

[darthska]

#1. Injuries is definitely a tough element to add to the equation, no doubt. Boozer, though, I mean he played this last season, and he just wasn't thesame. You could say he wasn't the same because of injury, but if you're the owner, does it matter why he's not the same? Not the same means not thesame.

#2. I think we're seeing that there are more than a few bad apples, and wishfully thinking something would be done about it.

 

[durden7]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

Durden7:

---

Theres wayy too many problems with a system like that. It just wouldnt work.

I think most people in agreement with me also agree with me that it wouldn't work.

This is more of a vent thread than a realistic suggestion.


There needs to be changes made, that much I agree with. How they go about changing it I dont know, but it's certainly broken.

Shorter contract lengths? Minimum stat #'s to make the contract guaranteed (injuries not applicable)?

 

[gaseousfashion]

I agree.

 

[eight2one]

which league has the most incentive based contracts?

 

[flatbushfiyah23]

I agree...if there were more of these contacts in sports I think it would be better overall for sports and competitive intensity would increase. I wouldwelcome a system where players are actually held accountable for their performance.

 

[andrew630]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

SHUGES:

---

Look, you guys act like most of these players didn't pay their dues already. You go through AAU, high-school, NCAA, summer practices, street-ball, organized ball, etc... That's WORK, yo. You're telling me after all of that work, these guys aren't entitled to some sort of pay-off?

If your contract is set up for me to only pay you 2 million a year once your numbers drop to 5ppg when they were 17ppg at the time of the contract signing, you'd have to be a stingy doofus to say that 2 million dollars a year is not a payoff. Two million to play a game you love after your numbers dropped off DRAMATICALLY? That's more than fair, and a couple million is still a nice payoff, but not more than you deserve.

Andrew630:

---

23ska909red02:

---

I NaSmatic I:

---

Player unions won't allow it.
I think the NBA player's union is so bad for the NBA.
you wouldnt think so if you're a nba player trying to support a family.
I'm supporting a family on < $50k a year; I think I could do it with even the minimum NBA contract.

'Yeah, but once they get to be millionaires, they live a different lifestyle.'

Then, just like me, they should know to live within their means. There's a very specific reason why I don't own a Corvette, and that reason is that I'm not positive I could afford the payments for the next few years. I know I can afford the payments I'm making for the vehicles I'm making, and any person in the NBA can make the same decision. Saying 'I'm used to this lavish lifestyle, and even though my numbers dropped, I have a family to support, man! Show me the money!' is both irresponsible, in my opinion.

Live according to what you know is coming in, not according to the highest paycheck you've ever gotten.
Do you know how many people try to leech off you once you've made it. Sure you're not obligated to help people out, but people really doguilt you. I'm 100% positive that you can support yourself off the league minimum. What is it, just over 450k? But guess what, you make a few million,you'd have financial security for life, and I'm sure that is a great feeling. And what kind of agent would want you if were to sign a contract of youractual worth as a player (if there was a scale, like player rankings on video games).

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

Originally Posted by LifeLessons

only thing i hate is when players play super hard during their contract year and then sign a big deal and give up....every bum you see w/ a big contract played well the year before...then stop caring after

Why Daytona, how you doin cuz?????

Been missin you for a minute, ain't seen you since the end of June for some reason. Where ya been at?

Been tryna delete the internet and all that reckless mess you was typin back in April-May?

 

[supersaiyan415]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by DAYTONA 5000

Originally Posted by LifeLessons

only thing i hate is when players play super hard during their contract year and then sign a big deal and give up....every bum you see w/ a big contract played well the year before...then stop caring after

Why Daytona, how you doin cuz?????

Been missin you for a minute, ain't seen you since the end of June for some reason. Where ya been at?

Been tryna delete the internet and all that reckless mess you was typin back in April-May?

PM son

 

[RyGuy45]

It's an interesting topic and I can see both sides. But the salaries and the general money involved has turned me off of sports more so than anything thelast decade. I guess I dont take sports as seriously anymore because of how much money has impacted our general sporting entertainment.


According to USA Today, here were MLB's highest salaries..

20 years ago
2.77 million - Orel Hershiser
2.47 million - Cal Ripken Jr.
2.42 million - Dwight Gooden
2.40 million - Gary Gaetti
2.34 million - Ozzie Smith

10 years ago
11.95 million - Albert Belle
11.10 million - Pedro Martinez
10.71 million - Kevin Brown
10.60 million - Greg Maddux
9.96 million - Gary Sheffield

Present
33.00 million - Alex Rodriguez
23.85 million - Manny Ramirez
21.60 million - Derek Jeter
20.63 million - Mark Teixeira
19.24 million - Carlos Beltran


There are many more revenue streams in today's game....but especially at the top end it's gotten out of whack. In all sports. In baseball's case wecan thank the usual 3-4 teams for outpricing everything obviously. And obviously you can make a case for either side (player vs. owner) as well as saying thisis America...but as usual when the salaries keep going up the people that pay for it are the fans. And you have those fans who cringe at the thought that theyhave to buy a beer for $12 all so it can help go to Player A's $100 million dollar salary that the same fan might read about in the paper is now all goneand the player blew it all partying.

We dont need to get started with the NBA, enough has been said already. Seeing cut backs and some of the talk lately from Stern does not suprise me in theslightest. And they seem to at least be starting to become smarter about money. But The NBA has turned into "how can I dump this salary?" more sothan anything. Every trade, EVERY trade is about salaries and expiring contracts. And these idiot GMs keep giving 50+ mil contracts to stiff centers cause theyknow they can just trade him off to someone a few years down the line if it doesnt work out. If you are a team's third option in the starting lineup thatis now worth upwards of $70 million guaranteed. And I dont care what anyone says....that to me is out of whack.

Is condintional contracts a huge solution? Not sure. But always a fun talker.