Catch 22 In The Professional World

[mkc1983]

is there something you guys would recommend to someone who isn't experienced at all in MS office, I can't afford to buy it but is there something out there?
I have lost about 3-5 jobs bc I didn't know excel and other programs, I usually don't even apply when the job entails MS office.


two years with a degree, nothing to show for |I  

your school might offer alumni skill building programs, contact them. If that doesn't work, try the YMCA, public libraries, etc.

 

[tomdiginson]

I start work this Monday for a government job that was never posted, and was never open until a former professor of mine made a phone call for me. 

I went to the office one day thinking I was just going to meet her contact and talk about future opportunities, but when I got there he was ready to make room for me immediately just off of her recommendation. 

I had 3 interviews in two weeks, and after 3 weeks I was hired. All of this after applying for at least 50 jobs (doing specific cover letters, filling out hour long applications, taking tests, etc.) that were all less desirable than this one.

It is crazy how these things work :\

Congrats man. The world is just so messed up.

 

[Ox.]

..........I mean.....w/o telling u to download a torrent....

But u mean to tell me that u have NEVER used MS Office? I mean, EVER? I find it hard to be believe but not totally unbelievable. See if you know somebody w/ Office 2010 or something. That has more than one user allowed per key as opposed to Office 13

I just remembered opencourseware has courses for free so I'd check there too. I'm on there now learning about project management and business analyst roles

only used MS word in my life and that's it.

will check it out, thanks.

your school might offer alumni skill building programs, contact them. If that doesn't work, try the YMCA, public libraries, etc.

I'm going to the library tomorrow. thanks.

I tried looking at youtube videos but I just didn't learn, 

 

[Gordonson]

 I can't be almost 21 asking moms for money and to take care of me, and I damn sure not trying to be one of those dudes 27 and living with moms. My plan is to get a job this month and save up at least 7,000 for a down payment on an apartment by December.


2014 is my year, let's get it.

wish more people thought like this

Just turned 20 last month and this is my mind frame too. I've done at least 25 applications in the last few months and only heard back for a HomeGoods Warehouse position. Of course I then miss said call by all of 15 minutes, and spent the next week calling only to receive a full inbox

The only experience I have is from two summer jobs, both through a youth program and the last being in 2011. So I doubt those would count as solid references. The hunt continues

 

[spot]

stretching the truth is def needed nowadays everybody is doing it so you gotta level the playing field (kinda like bots and sneakers lol)

just make sure your confident and get your story straight

its kinda like bluffin make your future employer believe what you tell him

also it really is who you know ive met people who are like if your serious about working for so and so lmk heres my business card

my niece/nephew/etc is in charge of hiring

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Explain this more. If they don't lie, they won't be qualified for the job and won't get hired. IF they do lie....the worst that can happen is they get caught and don't get the job. But they have a chance at getting hired if the lies are believed. Soooooo.....what's the risk of lying? Explain why they shouldn't again?

They shouldn't lie, because eventually HR will call the applicants "former" employers. When they find out the applicant never worked for X,Y and Z companies, he will then lose the offer and HR will "blacklist" the applicant and most likely he/she won't ever have another chance to interview with the company again. This is bad, because when the applicant does gain more experience and can qualify to apply for a higher position he/she is screwed because of a lie they put on their applications a few years ago.

Now, am I saying people lied on applications and never got job offers? No, but I'm saying there are certain "types" of jobs or positions you can get away with doing this. I know in fields such as finance, engineering, law etc (almost any sort of white collar profession)--There's a heavily scrutinized background check processes thats used.

Like I said before, I do a lot of recruiting for my company (Top 3 largest firms in Private Equity) and I'm VERY familiar with the hiring process. I've seen HUNDREDS of resumes filled with lies and it's almost TOO EASY to tell who's lying and who's not during the interview. Do not lie. It only makes you look bad and can possibly screw you over with future opportunities.

"Stretching the truth" is very different from straight up lying. You guys are smart enough to know what this means.

You can get away with "lying" on an application if you apply for places like Best Buy, McDonalds, Guitar Center etc etc

 

[zapatohead408]

I never lied on a resume, just make myself sound a lot more desirable on paper. Once I get that face to face interview, I'm money.

For example,

Experience

The Finish Line at Oakridge Mall San Jose, CA – Winter 2011/ Present
Sales Associate
Sold new merchandise and accessories to people seeking high performance equipment to fuel their activities from everyday needs to rigorous sporting events.
(I fetched shoes for people and talked to friends all day. Weekends, I bought and resold Jordans.)


East Valley Family YMCA San Jose, CA – Fall 2011/Spring 2012
Sports coach/Referee
Oversaw sports programs, specifically basketball and soccer. Assisted in the growth of new programs such as flag football and rock climbing while strengthening the community by teaching the four core values; caring, respect, honesty, and responsibility.
( I was a ref who blew the whistle on fouls, sometimes.)

edit: When I was in the process of getting hired at Wells Fargo, they did contact all of my previous employers.

 

[zapatohead408]

Also, depending on what kind of jobs you're looking at, volunteer work somewhere like the YMCA is AMAZING.

 

[WASPS ANDD ASPS]

yooooo.............

im so mad i might cant even finish this post......

long story short i DID intern in college.

still cant get a job.

wasted mad time here.

i really wanna move to a bigger city

last  interviews i had...

1. brain immunology ( rett syndrome, neuronal regeneration ) this ***** was drawing shapes n **** during our meeting on a piece of paper like a lil kid

2. sensory and systems neuroscience ( olfaction and forebrain development)

3. sensory and systems neuroscience ( neural encoding)

4. psychology (sound encoding)

half of the department ignored my emails (which i thought was whatever, until the director told me they SHOULD NOT have been doing that.)

what kills me is that i KNOW you dont have to have a ton of experience to join these labs. they have jobs for people who dont have experience. ive been told repeatedly that sometimes they even take people who dont even like science, like art and history majors who join just cuz they need to kill time.

come on doggie, u tellin me you'd rather let newbs who dont even like the field join, but you extra hesitant to let somebody who was experience in the same **** as you join?

where the love @ famb? if  they thought i didnt already have the skills needed to be successful with their squad, then dammit let me join and teach me how to do it. esp the immunology dude. yo dude just TELL me what im suppose to do cuz i know damn well nobody came to your **** knowing exactly what to do.

yo......i coudnt even get hired at KOHLS, Lowes, or state farm.

i worked at state farm as an intern for 3 summers/winters

y i aint get hired?????????? cuz of all that science **** i got on my resume.

i even took extra grad classes at the school. the immuno dude taught my class

and just to keep my name within the university i worked at the mailroom until they laid me off

then i became a JANITOR at the school

i was scrubbing toilets b. dirty nasty toilets. just cuz they were tellin me to do anything to keep my name in circulation.

******* nightmarish

 

[yeah]

1.) Where You Went to School
2.) Awesome Portfolio
3.) Politics of Work History
[COLOR=#red]4.) WHO YOU KNOW[/COLOR] 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but [COLOR=#red]in some fields in certain parts of the country (and/or world,) you are ONLY getting your foot in the door if you know someone, someone knows of you, or you have an incredible resume that is packed with legitimate info and a stellar work history[/COLOR] (these tend to be people who were recently laid off, and if they're worth even half of what they were making, they usually get snatched up first.)

I was lucky enough to get an IT contractor position with a school district before graduating. $20/hr to begin. They bumped me down to $15.50 an hour (but more hours/week) after they renewed the contract and changed some responsibilities (mainly, that I'd have to do more work in less time for less money -- ). I'm grateful for the experience, but as a recent Comp Sci grad I was expecting at LEAST 50k. I was making significantly less. Still, Computer Science, right? One of the biggest growing fields, right? PLENTY of jobs, right?

Only partially. While there were a lot of jobs, many Comp Sci jobs are the same as other traditional fields. They don't want a young developer/programmer straight out of school. They want someone with 2 to 3 years who has VERY specific skills in regards to coding and management. I didn't fit that bill. No one who just graduated college fits that bill. Only those who began interning as a sophomore tend to, and to even get an internship as a soph you usually gotta know someone.

But my Uncle-in-Law-to-Be just happens to be a chief officer at an agency. He hears I want a new job. Ta-da. New job. Making twice as much as I was before, doing half as much work, and I have all of the benefits that don't come with contracting (insurance, dental, pretax options, retirement options, etc.)

To this day, I have 0 official IT certs. I'll be getting those when I have a little paper stacked.

[COLOR=#red]All that other stuff is cool, but if you want a good job, NETWORK. If you can't network, HOLLA AT YOUR FAMILY.[/COLOR] Anyone who is a manager. Anyone who dates a manager. Anyone who plays golf with the boyfriend of the daughter of a director/manager/officer in an industry that you might even be slightly interested in.

Because, for any given position that is desirable in any measure, there WILL be other applicants. Do they know someone? Are they lying on their resume? Do whatever you gotta do to get that job, b. Other people are doing the same.

 

[airflow]

They shouldn't lie, because eventually HR will call the applicants "former" employers. When they find out the applicant never worked for X,Y and Z companies, he will then lose the offer and HR will "blacklist" the applicant and most likely he/she won't ever have another chance to interview with the company again. This is bad, because when the applicant does gain more experience and can qualify to apply for a higher position he/she is screwed because of a lie they put on their applications a few years ago.

Now, am I saying people lied on applications and never got job offers? No, but I'm saying there are certain "types" of jobs or positions you can get away with doing this. I know in fields such as finance, engineering, law etc (almost any sort of white collar profession)--There's a heavily scrutinized background check processes thats used.

Like I said before, I do a lot of recruiting for my company (Top 3 largest firms in Private Equity) and I'm VERY familiar with the hiring process. I've seen HUNDREDS of resumes filled with lies and it's almost TOO EASY to tell who's lying and who's not during the interview. Do not lie. It only makes you look bad and can possibly screw you over with future opportunities.

"Stretching the truth" is very different from straight up lying. You guys are smart enough to know what this means.

You can get away with "lying" on an application if you apply for places like Best Buy, McDonalds, Guitar Center etc etc

This is the truth.

I work in for a bank's fixed income trading department and there is a very detailed background check involved. Do NOT lie on your resume.

Another piece of advice is to take a program in school with a co-op/internship option, you will have a large advantage coming out of school with the real-world experience and connections made during this time.

 

[timelessflight]

That "Its not what u know, it's who u know" logic has always been around, we just meet it at different times in life. It's sad but it is what it is. I'm trying to find ways to network, but being introvert doesn't really help me

"Closed mouths don't get fed"

I'm an introvert as well and for the last year I've learned to step outside of my comfort zone and start being more outgoing like going to networking events and being around large groups of people. I just went to a networking event a couple weeks ago and met some really cool people that can possibly end up being job connects.

What did you go to school for? I think every field has some type of chapter in each city that has networking events. Also try meetup. They have networking groups that meet all the time.


At the end of the day you just gotta put yourself out there man. Don't be afraid to interact with people.

 

[teamjordan79]

yooooo.............

im so mad i might cant even finish this post......

long story short i DID intern in college.

still cant get a job.

wasted mad time here.

i really wanna move to a bigger city

last  interviews i had...

1. brain immunology ( rett syndrome, neuronal regeneration ) this ***** was drawing shapes n **** during our meeting on a piece of paper like a lil kid
2. sensory and systems neuroscience ( olfaction and forebrain development)
3. sensory and systems neuroscience ( neural encoding)
4. psychology (sound encoding)

half of the department ignored my emails (which i thought was whatever, until the director told me they SHOULD NOT have been doing that.)

what kills me is that i KNOW you dont have to have a ton of experience to join these labs. they have jobs for people who dont have experience. ive been told repeatedly that sometimes they even take people who dont even like science, like art and history majors who join just cuz they need to kill time.

come on doggie, u tellin me you'd rather let newbs who dont even like the field join, but you extra hesitant to let somebody who was experience in the same **** as you join?

where the love @ famb? if  they thought i didnt already have the skills needed to be successful with their squad, then dammit let me join and teach me how to do it. esp the immunology dude. yo dude just TELL me what im suppose to do cuz i know damn well nobody came to your **** knowing exactly what to do.

yo......i coudnt even get hired at KOHLS, Lowes, or state farm.

i worked at state farm as an intern for 3 summers/winters
y i aint get hired?????????? cuz of all that science **** i got on my resume.


i even took extra grad classes at the school. the immuno dude taught my class

and just to keep my name within the university i worked at the mailroom until they laid me off
then i became a JANITOR at the school

i was scrubbing toilets b. dirty nasty toilets. just cuz they were tellin me to do anything to keep my name in circulation.

******* nightmarish

condolence repped

 

[dathbgboy]

That "Its not what u know, it's who u know" logic has always been around, we just meet it at different times in life. It's sad but it is what it is. I'm trying to find ways to network, but being introvert doesn't really help me

"Closed mouths don't get fed"

I'm an introvert as well and for the last year I've learned to step outside of my comfort zone and start being more outgoing like going to networking events and being around large groups of people. I just went to a networking event a couple weeks ago and met some really cool people that can possibly end up being job connects.

What did you go to school for? I think every field has some type of chapter in each city that has networking events. Also try meetup. They have networking groups that meet all the time.


At the end of the day you just gotta put yourself out there man. Don't be afraid to interact with people.

Yea, I feel u. I'm working on it. It's usually the ice breaker that I have issues with. Once the ball is rolling I'm straight.

 

[frshstunna]

The skills section is where i stretch the truth...if i come across or know even a little bit about any program/software i throw it on there if its relevant to the position...i just look it up online if i ever have to use it and that's been working for me

Can you explain your method to me some more bruh? Pm me if you want

For example, one of my previous jobs wanted somebody that was an expert in building/managing databases via excel and access...i put all that in my skills section and just read some brief stuff before the interview to know a lil something in case they asked about it...got the job and when i started working, if i needed to do anything involving those programs i just looked it up online or used the Microsoft help feature to get things done...by doing that it also actually helped me learn that stuff so know i really know what im doing so its all good on my resume ...thats one thing we got an advantage in tho is that being young and outta college alotta employers assume you got different computer skills so use that to benefit you

 

[Hank Scorpio]

For example, one of my previous jobs wanted somebody that was an expert in building/managing databases via excel and access...i put all that in my skills section and just read some brief stuff before the interview to know a lil something in case they asked about it...got the job and when i started working, if i needed to do anything involving those programs i just looked it up online or used the Microsoft help feature to get things done...by doing that it also actually helped me learn that stuff so know i really know what im doing so its all good on my resume ...thats one thing we got an advantage in tho is that being young and outta college alotta employers assume you got different computer skills so use that to benefit you

When I was in Investment Banking, a lot of the other analysts would look up how to do stuff on Excel and Powerpoint ALL THE TIME

This is why the new employee training programs at most banks have gone through a thorough overhaul. I think they spend 1-2 weeks on exclusively training Excel.

 

[dathbgboy]

Another thing I've noticed is the "discrimination"of it if state applicants. These jobs really expect u to pick up and move without a source of income. Even if u saved up, what's the guarantee of a job before your savings are depleted?

And some areas are terrible as far as job growth and pay, Pittsburgh being one of them

 

[frshstunna]

For example, one of my previous jobs wanted somebody that was an expert in building/managing databases via excel and access...i put all that in my skills section and just read some brief stuff before the interview to know a lil something in case they asked about it...got the job and when i started working, if i needed to do anything involving those programs i just looked it up online or used the Microsoft help feature to get things done...by doing that it also actually helped me learn that stuff so know i really know what im doing so its all good on my resume ...thats one thing we got an advantage in tho is that being young and outta college alotta employers assume you got different computer skills so use that to benefit you

When I was in Investment Banking, a lot of the other analysts would look up how to do stuff on Excel and Powerpoint ALL THE TIME

This is why the new employee training programs at most banks have gone through a thorough overhaul. I think they spend 1-2 weeks on exclusively training Excel.

Yea Excel is tricky but once you mess with it a lil bit you should be good...Now PowerPoint on the other hand is super basic, i was a wiz at that by like 9th grade , the older ppl def do struggle with it somehow tho so i end up having to do all the presentations

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Yea Excel is tricky but once you mess with it a lil bit you should be good...Now PowerPoint on the other hand is super basic, i was a wiz at that by like 9th grade , the older ppl def do struggle with it somehow tho so i end up having to do all the presentations

Excel and Powerpoint isn't as easy as you're describing it. There are some projects that can contain very sophisticated macros and models in Excel and Powerpoint. It really depends on what you're doing.

Hell, even knowing all the keyboard shortcuts isn't a walk in the park. If you guys want a real challenge using Excel--Try using it without a mouse

Took me at least 8 months to learn how to efficiently use Excel without a mouse. Now I only exclusively use Excel with a keyboard.

 

[dathbgboy]

Yea Excel is tricky but once you mess with it a lil bit you should be good...Now PowerPoint on the other hand is super basic, i was a wiz at that by like 9th grade , the older ppl def do struggle with it somehow tho so i end up having to do all the presentations

Excel and Powerpoint isn't as easy as you're describing it. There are some projects that can contain very sophisticated macros and models in Excel and Powerpoint. It really depends on what you're doing.

Hell, even knowing all the keyboard shortcuts isn't even a walk in the park. If you guys want a real challenge using Excel--Try using it without a mouse

Took me at least 8 months to learn how to efficiently using Excel without a mouse. Now I only exclusively use Excel with a keyboard.

Well aren't you fancy?

Excel is a different monster but so useful. I have yet to have to use access so I don't know what all it entails

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Well aren't you fancy?

Excel is a different monster but so useful. I have yet to have to use access so I don't know what all it entails

It's not fancy. In finance most people try to use Excel without a mouse--really makes the projects go a lot quicker.

 

[dathbgboy]

Well aren't you fancy?

Excel is a different monster but so useful. I have yet to have to use access so I don't know what all it entails

It's not fancy. In finance most people try to use Excel without a mouse--really makes the projects go a lot quicker.

I'm just messing with you man. I tend to take a MS-DOS approach to programs I use at work if I can. Heck, done programs are written so poorly or outdated that using a mouse is a hassle

 

[antidope]

The jobless and frustrated thread in disguise.

I know a fact that my former employer was contacted by my current employer and I dont even work for any of the big banks, it wasnt anything in depth, just how long I worked there and what I did there.

If I had to put a number on it, I would say that more than 90% of resumes contain exaggerations

 

[4318michaeljohnson4318]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but [COLOR=#red]in some fields in certain parts of the country (and/or world,) you are ONLY getting your foot in the door if you know someone, someone knows of you, or you have an incredible resume that is packed with legitimate info and a stellar work history[/COLOR] (these tend to be people who were recently laid off, and if they're worth even half of what they were making, they usually get snatched up first.)

I was lucky enough to get an IT contractor position with a school district before graduating. $20/hr to begin. They bumped me down to $15.50 an hour (but more hours/week) after they renewed the contract and changed some responsibilities (mainly, that I'd have to do more work in less time for less money -- ). I'm grateful for the experience, but as a recent Comp Sci grad I was expecting at LEAST 50k. I was making significantly less. Still, Computer Science, right? One of the biggest growing fields, right? PLENTY of jobs, right?

Only partially. While there were a lot of jobs, many Comp Sci jobs are the same as other traditional fields. They don't want a young developer/programmer straight out of school. They want someone with 2 to 3 years who has VERY specific skills in regards to coding and management. I didn't fit that bill. No one who just graduated college fits that bill. Only those who began interning as a sophomore tend to, and to even get an internship as a soph you usually gotta know someone.

But my Uncle-in-Law-to-Be just happens to be a chief officer at an agency. He hears I want a new job. Ta-da. New job. Making twice as much as I was before, doing half as much work, and I have all of the benefits that don't come with contracting (insurance, dental, pretax options, retirement options, etc.)

To this day, I have 0 official IT certs. I'll be getting those when I have a little paper stacked.

[COLOR=#red]All that other stuff is cool, but if you want a good job, NETWORK. If you can't network, HOLLA AT YOUR FAMILY.[/COLOR] Anyone who is a manager. Anyone who dates a manager. Anyone who plays golf with the boyfriend of the daughter of a director/manager/officer in an industry that you might even be slightly interested in.

Because, for any given position that is desirable in any measure, there WILL be other applicants. Do they know someone? Are they lying on their resume? Do whatever you gotta do to get that job, b. Other people are doing the same.

As a CompSci major why dont you have a portfolio? Why didnt you develop your own projects? Why didnt you intern?

 

[ddh1122]

Gonna cosign with dude who said get certifications - they do help.

I have a few certifications under my belt. They help and make you stand out. Even something simple like a Microsoft Word 2010 Certification can have you 3x more qualified then other candidates or so.