Black Culture Discussion Thread

[Public Enemy]

A lot of words typed to say, "I'm not sure."

Cool though.

You're an educator and a prolific poster around here and like 2 paragraphs was too much to engage with? Alright

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You're an educator and a prolific poster around here and like 2 paragraphs was too much to engage with? Alright

You never directly answered the question.

You used analogies and never actually connected them to your actual point.

You responded but never ANSWERED the actual question.

It has zero to do with the length of the response.

 

[Public Enemy]

You never directly answered the question.

You used analogies and never actually connected them to your actual point.

You responded but never ANSWERED the actual question.

It has zero to do with the length of the response.

Before you asked the question I said the argument itself is asking a question that isn't really answerable in a meaningful way, and I gave examples of similar such arguments. You're not dense, so I know you get it. I know we're on a message board and on the internet so there's this weird thing were people can't have a normal discussion like in real life, but I know you understand what I'm saying and comprehend the ideas I've expressed. I put up the deuces because having seen you post, I know you get it, you just have chosen not to engage in the ideas I expressed. That's your choice, so,

See you around

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Yea don't play it as if I'm purposely not getting what you are saying. You never answered the question. You never even gave close to an answer to the question.

You could have EASILY gave SOME tangible examples of ways hip-hop improved the plight of black Americans. But you didn't even attempt to do so.

So telling me, "I can't explain it" and writing off anyone that says that's not a good enough response as being obtuse is just a wild stance to take.

But you got it.

No hard feelings.

 

[Public Enemy]

Yea don't play it as if I'm purposely not getting what you are saying. You never answered the question. You never even gave close to an answer to the question.

You could have EASILY gave SOME tangible examples of ways hip-hop improved the plight of black Americans. But you didn't even attempt to do so.

So telling me, "I can't explain it" and writing off anyone that says that's not a good enough response as being obtuse is just a wild stance to take.

But you got it.

No hard feelings.

Yep, that is correct. Like why are we going to give base level arguments that we both know exist. Did you need me to talk about how hip hop is like the greatest self-confidence music there is? Did I need to explain to you how a people beaten down by an oppressor can use everything from "I'm on my own planet" by Royce 5'9 to "Mind over Matter" by Ice-T to give them the self-confidence to overcome the hardships they face? Is that new to you, or anyone on here?

Would it be revelatory to talk about how KRS-1's thought provoking and educational lyrics, even as it approaches hokum, introduces you to the inner-workings of capitalism before you even formally take classes or can really conceive of how the system functions? That something you didn't know? Course not.

How about how hip hop not only does what it does in the way of taking older black music and recontextualizing it into new hits links you back to things you may not have heard or experienced, but also talks about it in the way of Stetsasonic's "Talkin all that Jazz", and the arguments made therein where they talk about sampling give you a multidimensional musical experience I don't experience in other genres. Are you unfamiliar with that song? That group? Course not.

So when history making events happen that involve agents of the state and law enforcement and mistreatment of people in our community, while many people in society see the event and learn about things as the news tells them, we already have a bank of information that tells us what occurred by linking us to memories of the brightest and best among us, whether civil rights leaders, comedians, lines from movies, whatever.

All that cultural information gets distributed through hip hop, and it's like a freaking BANK dog! It just accumulates over time.

I mentioned in this thread months ago that there was a song called "Extradite" that Black Thought made where there's a Farrakhan quote where he talks about how police won't move the same way they've been moving if there's a realistic chance if they kill us and they die - that was in the bank.

KRS talking about tax code, or how american government operates with controlled substances, Public Enemy or Ice-T talking about government surveillance, Paris talking about police brutality, the Coup talking about capitalism and its structures (and later Boots going on to release movies that further analyze those systems), and so on.

Any of that new to you? Course not.

And allllll the hip hop we've consumed over the years sits there. Waiting to be awoken by a reference. A meaning hidden inside a song you didn't even pick up on. From something as simple as MF Doom's "Strange Ways" talking about "What's the difference, all you get is lost children while the bosses sit up behind desks", to something as explicit as Immortal Technique's ....uh....Immortal Technique, to The Perceptionist's "Memorial Day" lyrics where they talk about "Where are the weapons of mass destruction?"

All these little things are simultaneously entertainment but also enlightenment, but also a light. The proverbial idea of people feeling different parts of an elephant in the dark and each person saying it's hard, or leathery, or wet, or soft, or warm, depending on what part of the elephant they're touching... that's what hip hop is doing.

Its taking black folk and helping us see the full picture of this society and our place in it, in bits and pieces. In beats and rhymes. In cuts and scratches and battles and disses and shows.

And if yall are like me, you've listened to an untold amount of hip hop, but you still keep discovering new connections, new references, new value. You hear a reference to something prior to the earliest reference you heard previously, and you realize there's a connection.

Like just today, I was listening to (shocker) p.e. on Fear of a Black Planet and Chuck shouted out Ice-T and the Geto Boys at a time where P.E. could have easily decided they were holier than thou. I mean Burn Hollywood Burn had some interesting dynamics itself. But that act made me consider perhaps how protectionist they were feeling about the culture at that time, that the geto boys talking about slaughtering a teacher on "Assassins" didn't stop Chuck from pledging allegiance for lack of a better term.

And I haven't looked it up but I'm wondering if cube's "you let a jew break up my crew" was before or after the Burn Hollywood Burn recording, and if that, tension, shall we say, was present for any versions of Cube's lyrics.

Hip hop is blood to me. Runs through my veins. What good has it done for black people? How much more time do you have? You want me to keep going? Dr. Umar is dumb, lol.

 

[tokes99]

Really its the execs behind the music pushing all that stuff. I remember Fabolous saying one of the execs told him not to rap about being in a relationship.

i don't doubt there are some completely unscrupulous execs outchea...but music on that level is commercial art. i'm sure if fab did or didn't find the reasoning compelling he would choose what to make accordingly based on how fab himself thought the music would be received...

in the process of commercial product creation it's always an exec telling the artist/creator/designer what does/doesn't work based on their bias/experience/perspective...it's really on the artist/creator/designer to create a convincing product to overcome/sway the decision makers, their main agenda is what they believe will move/sell and/or position the brand best

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

I’m sure execs have said that to other ppl, but coming from Fab that’s kinda ironic. His most commercial successful songs are “Into You”, “Can’t Let You Go”, and “Make Me Better”….

 

[frshstunna]

Convo got me thinking......Atlanta did a lot of damage to hip-hop.

They did but can’t just single them out cuz every region comtributed some bs….Plus they helped bring some fun/party/dance music back at a time when it was leaning too much the other way so ATL was kinda necessary for a lil min

 

[danikerhino]

I thought that this was a good little piece on Antoine Fuqua interactioning with the communities in LA that he was filming at.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Convo got me thinking......Atlanta did a lot of damage to hip-hop.

Please explain what they did to be singled out compared to any other region?

They did but can’t just single them out cuz every region comtributed some bs….Plus they helped bring some fun/party/dance music back at a time when it was leaning too much the other way so ATL was kinda necessary for a lil min

Exactly.

How did they do more damage than the West Coast's initial MAINSTREAM run?

 

[finessence]

I thought that this was a good little piece on Antoine Fuqua interactioning with the communities in LA that he was filming at.

 

[tr1ll]

Please explain what they did to be singled out compared to any other region?


Exactly.

How did they do more damage than the West Coast's initial MAINSTREAM run?

While there was always one or two mainstream "pop" rappers. Atlanta were the most prevalent focusing more on "gettin money" than substance. Blatantly. Atlanta made Trap mainstream and there is absolutely now arguing that. At least the West Coast tell stories and speaking for the people. Atlanta rappers were just. "sell dope, sell dope, sell dope, get money, get money, finesses, finesses finesses"...eventually, realizing they all couldn't keep lying about selling dope, they adding "do drugs, do drugs", which further lead to just saying ANYTHING. There was no real creativity nor innovation. Aint no way all them dudes sold dope, unless the whole city was just passing around one brick just to say they did it. Them dudes aint give a **** about the music, it was all a get-rich-quick scheme and/or money laundering. Really and truly, it was the producers who made whole movement possible(thats why they're the only ones still around from that time frame).

 

[deuce king]

Convo got me thinking......Atlanta did a lot of damage to hip-hop.

100%. The actual quality of hip hop music took a nose dive now that Atlanta is running things.

 

[finessence]

Dudes just ain’t slick with the wordplay anymore. Beats all sound the same. At least street rappers like Beanie Sigel could be versatile. Literally ALL this s*** sounds the same.

I’m not going to blame Atlanta. The blessed us with OutKast, TI, and Jeezy.. (never was a Gucci fan) and the music forum knew my beef with Future.

Most us are in our 30s or maybe 40s so, our standards are going to be different. We’re comparing our childhood/younger years with modern day rap.

So imagine, a current 10-15-20+ year old will be comparing guys like Playboi Carti, Rod Wave, NBA youngboy with the stuff that their future kids will be playing.

A kid that’s under 10 years today knows who NBA young boy or cardi B, ice spice is, but not Nas or Jay. Heck, their parents might not be familiar with Scarface, Mos Def, OutKast, EPMD, etc.

It’s just where we are today.

My little 7 year old neice thought that metro boomin tape or ice spice was getting play in my ride, over Payroll Giovanni.. I said they will NOT get any spins in my whip.

All of this is OKAY. The world is just moving fast, and past pop culture or history is being forgotten. It’s going to happen with stuff from this era eventually as well.

That’s just how life goes

 

[tr1ll]

I’m not going to blame Atlanta. The blessed us with OutKast, TI, and Jeezy.. (never was a Gucci fan) and the music forum knew my beef with Future.

They were all pre-mixtape era. Things can be bad and good. Its the human experience. Yes they gave us Outkast and TI, but they also gave us and Young Thug. Outkast, TI and Jeezy doesn’t absolve the city from the damage the rest of those rappers did. If anything those were the exception.

I know we’ve been trained to worship Atlanta as this mecca of southern black culture but they done lost their ****. Aint nothing wrong with calling that out. It’s the first step of correcting the problem. Once upon a time, I wanted to live in Atlanta sooo bad but that hustle culture kinda killed it.

 

[tay1]

Blaming Atlanta for whatever you feel about hip hop is just lazy.

Blaming hip hop for any problems in the community is also lazy

 

[finessence]

Blaming Atlanta for whatever you feel about hip hop is just lazy.

Blaming hip hop for any problems in the community is also lazy

Last I seen… Heckler and Koch is is based in Oberndorf, Germany… we aren’t the ones manufacturing guns

Like I said, people slick never talk about the goings on before 1978.

People were alcoholics, robbing, stealing, killing and doing dope wayyyyyy before hip hop.

The stuff that “occurs” now was already happening wayyyyyy before hip hop

 

[frshstunna]

From living in ATL, and still being there on the regular I can say the get money and hustle culture is real, nothin fake about it…It’s a gift and a curse cuz it made alotta black folks rich and elevated folks lives who moved there from different places and created a place where seeing that kinda success was normal when we don’t have too many examples of that as a whole city/metro area

The curse is they allow and go along with anything that gets money…So when anything goes things are bound to get goofy and weird, that’s why the ppl say the city went “Hollywood”…Alot of The dudes that are really from there wasn’t putting on an act or looking at rap as a get rich quick scheme tho, I can’t blame em too much if they approached the music and industry based on the culture of the city they grew up in…I don’t think Ti set out to intentionally damage hip hop, he just an ATL dude talking bout what he sees and knows

 

[finessence]

.

 

[tr1ll]

Blaming Atlanta for whatever you feel about hip hop is just lazy.

Blaming hip hop for any problems in the community is also lazy

Ironic one sentence reply. I'd argue avoiding topics because we don’t like them is counter productive and blaming someone else is a 1000 times lazier. I enjoyed it as much as the next person. I was on livemixtapes and datpiff everyday. When people asked me what I listened to in that era, I would answer "Ignorance" every time. I know I was part of the problem, I was down up in there and Im not scared to say, "We was ******* up." Im a firm believe if you really love or hold something close to you, you call it out on its BS. You don't have to do it in fornt of everyone but you still call them out. Always pretending like its an outside force it fake. Its what people who don't know true love THINK they're supposed to do. If you're not willing to identify the problems from within, what are you really doing?

Last I seen… Heckler and Koch is is based in Oberndorf, Germany… we aren’t the ones manufacturing guns

Like I said, people slick never talk about the goings on before 1978.

People were alcoholics, robbing, stealing, killing and doing dope wayyyyyy before hip hop.

The stuff that “occurs” now was already happening wayyyyyy before hip hop

Ya'll are moving the goal post. We are talking specifically talking about the mixtape trap era. That stuff went from studio to dj to livemixtapes/datpiff. No labels involved. I KNOW this. I never said hip hop nor Atlanta was responsible for any of that. I said they were responsible for damaging hip hop and directly lead it to its current state. It was a very clear domino effect. Mumble/trap rap got popular through the (free)mixtape sites, and the record labels jumped in to take advantage, BUT THEY ONLY DID THAT BECAUSE IT WAS ALREADY POPULAR AND LUCRATIVE. Who caused that? We did. Who could've told the record labels to kick rocks? We did. Thats the kill part about the mixtape era, it was one of the purest forms of hip hop and immediately went to ****.

 

[finessence]

Ironic one sentence reply. I'd argue avoiding topics because we don’t like them is counter productive and blaming someone else is a 1000 times lazier. I enjoyed it as much as the next person. I was on livemixtapes and datpiff everyday. When people asked me what I listened to in that era, I would answer "Ignorance" every time. I know I was part of the problem, I was down up in there and Im not scared to say, "We was ******* up." Im a firm believe if you really love or hold something close to you, you call it out on its BS. You don't have to do it in fornt of everyone but you still call them out. Always pretending like its an outside force it fake. Its what people who don't know true love THINK they're supposed to do. If you're not willing to identify the problems from within, what are you really doing?




Ya'll are moving the goal post. We are talking specifically talking about the mixtape trap era. That stuff went from studio to dj to livemixtapes/datpiff. No labels involved. I KNOW this. I never said hip hop nor Atlanta was responsible for any of that. I said they were responsible for damaging hip hop and directly lead it to its current state. It was a very clear domino effect. Mumble/trap rap got popular through the (free)mixtape sites, and the record labels jumped in to take advantage, BUT THEY ONLY DID THAT BECAUSE IT WAS ALREADY POPULAR AND LUCRATIVE. Who caused that? We did. Who could've told the record labels to kick rocks? We did. Thats the kill part about the mixtape era, it was one of the purest forms of hip hop and immediately went to ****.

Mumble rap got popular because of LAZY fans.

The fans are the ones who supported and championed this garbage. I can’t blame rappers for wanting to get money fast, especially if lousy fans are going to accept anything.

It’s the consumers fault.

Starting around 2013/2014/2015… I couldn’t BELIEVE some of the songs that people thought were ill.

Cats really let Bobby Shmurda, Desiigner, SIXNINE… lil peep, pump, slump god or whatever think they had rank.

Sixnine would’ve been CLOWNED for wearing rainbow hair ALONE in the 90s. George Clinton the only dude who had that clout.

When I saw SIXNINES and Bobby Shmurda be crowned, I knew rap was done

 

[finessence]

People REALLY let a clear clown, with rainbow hair and tattoos on his face… walk around here like he was a street dude.

I couldn’t believe my eyes. People really thought this dude was of the street . Credibility lost.

Dudes like 50 and Jim Jones calling buddy the KONY


I’d like to know WHEN, where and WHY did hip hop/rap fans stop caring about lyrics??

You’ve got got dudes who can’t rap trying to blur lines. That’s the problem.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

We gotta do better man.

They are saying this was another Ime Udoka BOSTON situation.

Dudes ruining whole families. We gotta do better.

 

[TSCQ]

that's the game, how he rebounds from this is his problem. You made the bed you sleep in it.

 

[finessence]

He like white women. Is married to a white woman so, I don’t care.

Some dudes don’t need to be married. Some dudes are desperate. Some dudes just can’t control their hormones. I don’t blame any women, no matter the race, who get ahold of these deviant cats