Appreciate watching Lebron

[jay y kay]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by jay y kay

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

he is definitely a beast.. but i don't see him becoming the GOAT. if he steps up his dedication and mentality towards the game to the level of MJ and Kobe, then he will definitely have a chance. but as of now, i see him as an incredibly talented player who will probably have the league on lock for years.

elaborate?

seems to me he ups every dimension of his game every year. And if you mean a killer instinct by mentality, hes always been team first so its never worn on his sleeve, but trust me its there.

every great player adds dimensions to their game every year. Jordan just did it beyond the level of anybody else who has ever played. you have to realize that despite all of Lebron's improvements and achievements, he is still not on a progression to surpass Jordan. nobody is. so it's not like you can just say "well, if he keeps doing what he's doing, he'll be better than MJ in no time." the hardest worker and most mentally tough player in the NBA right now is still falling well short of MJ. Lebron has more talent to start with, but he will at least have to equal that work ethic and mentality to even come close.

and you say Lebron has the Jordanesque-killer instinct inside? really? if you say so... but ask any basketball fan for the top 5 players in NBA history who they'd want with the ball in their hands for a final possession, and none of them will name Lebron, at least not right now. everybody will name Jordan (as well as an active NBA player: Kobe Bryant, hence why i mentioned him) among that five.

we know Lebron won the genetic lottery physically, but assuming that he was also born with Jordan's 1-in-a-million mental tools would be a stretch.



i'm not hating on Lebron or anything. i just hate when people act like he will easily be the GOAT. not necessarily aimed at you, but i always hear people say stuff like "oh, imagine what Lebron will be like 5 years from now, he'll easily surpass Jordan" blah blah. he has more natural talent than anybody, but if he wants to be the GOAT, he can't just get by off of that. he will have to step the mental aspect of his game up to inhuman levels, which is what Jordan did.

you didn't answer the question. How do you know whether Lebron's putting in a similar amount of effort as MJ or Kobe? What makes you think he's not up to par mentally with MJ or Kobe? First you discredited Lebron's dedication and mentality, and yet to provide a good answer as to why you question it.

Lebron is in his 6th season in the NBA and still has not developed a consistent midrange jumper. he only shoots 78% from the FT line. if he had an adequate level of dedication, that would not be the case, would it?

and why is he 6'9 270 with no consistent post game to speak of? he's getting by off of pure athleticism now, but when he gets older he will have to put in the effort to fine tune these skills.

his jumpshot definitely improved quite a lot compared to when he first entered the league. Just yesterday he made 5 threes didn't he?
and how can you say 'only' 78% when NBA avg is lower than that? Granted MJ and Kobe have shot better than 78, but still, it's not like there was aworld of difference between them.
post game i'll give you that since i agree that he doesn't have a 'consistent' post game yet. But to me, the fact that he is shooting ratherwell these days and got his free throw avg up almost 10% compared to the year before tell me that he does have the dedication to constantly improve his game.

 

[jbone2308]

Ya'll know me on here and who I'm for. I been a Bron fan from jump just not on the hype machine.

The jumpshot nonsense talk gotta stop and the free throws. Son doesn't need to shoot in the mid 80's or 35% from 3. He may not need to ever cuz likesomeone said above he may end up in the post. His jumper is nice but as he loses athleticism he may need to tweek it again to get it over defenders consistent.

I'm a believer he will go down as one of the best that has played, but ranked where many have him already it remains to be seen.

The GOAT talk must cease because I'm a firm believer MJ was meant to be the GOAT, period. You don't have all your family under 5'10'' andyou end up 6'6'' with giant hands and the ability to get good at anything he spends time on without being "touched."

Bron and Shaq where "touched" physically but Mike.....go watch some youtube vids young ones. Hoopsencyclopedia keeps the legend alive.

 

[mamaco]

I'm a casual NBA fan.

I'm more than that but I'm certainly not a hooper and I don't watch enough basketball to say anything with any kind of definitive assertion.

So can some body answer this for me?

Some of the passes I see Lebron make are ridiculous. Obviously he can pass the ball but I see him make passes that I've seen very few players make. Am Ijust ignorant or is he really an elite distributor, particularly from around/outside the arc?

 

[jbone2308]

Originally Posted by Mamaco

I'm a casual NBA fan.

I'm more than that but I'm certainly not a hooper and I don't watch enough basketball to say anything with any kind of definitive assertion.

So can some body answer this for me?

Some of the passes I see Lebron make are ridiculous. Obviously he can pass the ball but I see him make passes that I've seen very few players make. Am I just ignorant or is he really an elite distributor, particularly from around/outside the arc?

I gotta say he's elite. The court vision he possesses allow him to make those passes and his understanding of where he guys need to be in theoffense.

 

[mamaco]

Originally Posted by jbone2308

Originally Posted by Mamaco

I'm a casual NBA fan.

I'm more than that but I'm certainly not a hooper and I don't watch enough basketball to say anything with any kind of definitive assertion.

So can some body answer this for me?

Some of the passes I see Lebron make are ridiculous. Obviously he can pass the ball but I see him make passes that I've seen very few players make. Am I just ignorant or is he really an elite distributor, particularly from around/outside the arc?

I gotta say he's elite. The court vision he possesses allow him to make those passes and his understanding of where he guys need to be in the offense.

That's pretty much how I feel. It looks like he's so strong that he can literally just force passes where he shouldn't.

 

[Betonblck]

LeBron has elevated his game to the next level this season. He has a consistent jump shot now. Most people that understand basketball know that once LeBrondeveloped a consistent jump shot, he would be completely unstoppable.

At the level he is playing right now, he is the most dominant player I've seen. LeBron is underrated by alot of people that don't understand the gameand think that scoring is the only element of being a dominant player. Pippen was one of the best small forwards ever. LeBron is playing at a level way abovePippen right now, it's not even close.

Most of all, LeBron's decision making has improved greatly. He knows when to be dominant and when to take it easy and let the game come to him. Is hebecoming the best closer of quarters in the league?

 

[jay y kay]

Originally Posted by Mamaco

I'm a casual NBA fan.

I'm more than that but I'm certainly not a hooper and I don't watch enough basketball to say anything with any kind of definitive assertion.

So can some body answer this for me?

Some of the passes I see Lebron make are ridiculous. Obviously he can pass the ball but I see him make passes that I've seen very few players make. Am I just ignorant or is he really an elite distributor, particularly from around/outside the arc?

that part of his game is definitely the most unique and fun to watch. He makes spectacular passes on regular, and he's so good at cross-court passing. Itdoesn't hurt that he's got good shooters around him either

 

[outacontrol music]

Originally Posted by bigtimejerky

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

he is definitely a beast.. but i don't see him becoming the GOAT. if he steps up his dedication and mentality towards the game to the level of MJ and Kobe, then he will definitely have a chance. but as of now, i see him as an incredibly talented player who will probably have the league on lock for years.

elaborate?

seems to me he ups every dimension of his game every year. And if you mean a killer instinct by mentality, hes always been team first so its never worn on his sleeve, but trust me its there.

Yep.


I mean people act like you have to be a stoneface psycho on the court to reflect a competitive intensity.


Trust me, LeBron has that, he's just a different breed.


And if you think he hasn't developed a midrange jumper since his rookie season, then...

He's developed that and a million other things in his game.



EDIT: Man what a GREAT Outside the Lines piece on ESPN


LeBron has to stay and I truuuuly believe he will. Too much good around him right now. Great system, great teammates that love eachother, and on the cusp of apotential dynasty. Just say no to rebuiling elsewhere. Like Chris Broussard said, only way LeBron would even consider leaving is if he can step in RIGHT awayand have a seriously legitimate shot at winning multiple titles, not just one. He'll be in the prime of his career and wouldn't want to waste 2 yearsfiguring out which pieces fit around him. I don't think the eventual decreased salary cap will help many teams provide that. We'll have to wait andsee....


Multiple titles sell themselves. LeBron would become even more iconic if he starts raking in rings...

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

[LakerStan] But if Lebron played in the triangle offense his numbers would be down. His jumper isinconsistent, he plays no defense, he has no killer instinct. [/LakerStan]

Detractors of Lebron will always default to those BS "facts" as a last reort no matter how well Lebron does. Ifhe were to hit 9 3's in a row he would just be considered a "streaky shooter" to them. Or my favorite one that they use "he is just too big,he just bullies people around, wait till his athleticism is gone then he'd be garbage"....but yet those same dudes will say he has no post game, butif he were to use his post game and dominate they would default back to him being big and athletic and that's the only reason why he dominates.

OH and how can I forget this one "the media tries to cram Lebron down our throats and I like him less because ofthat".

. So becausehe is getting more shine than your favorite player because of the amazing performances he is putting up you are mad at the media and as a result you dislikehim more?

.

Yeah his is huge, but don't forget he brings SKILLS along with that package. HOW MANY 6'8 260 lbs DUDES YOU KNOWCAN DRIBBLE, PASS, AND DRIVE AS QUICKLY AND EXPLOSIVELY AS HE DOES? That's just not size...that's the PERFECT combination of size and skills, that noteven Michael Jordan possessed. End of story.

STOP HATING

 

[outacontrol music]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

[LakerStan] But if Lebron played in the triangle offense his numbers would be down. His jumper is inconsistent, he plays no defense, he has no killer instinct. [/LakerStan]

Detractors of Lebron will always default to those BS "facts" as a last reort no matter how well Lebron does. If he were to hit 9 3's in a row he would just be considered a "streaky shooter" to them. Or my favorite one that they use "he is just too big, he just bullies people around, wait till his athleticism is gone then he'd be garbage"....but yet those same dudes will say he has no post game, but if he were to use his post game and dominate they would default back to him being big and athletic and that's the only reason why he dominates.

OH and how can I forget this one "the media tries to cram Lebron down our throats and I like him less because of that".

. So because he is getting more shine than your favorite player because of the amazing performances he is putting up you are mad at the media and as a result you dislike him more?

.

Yeah his is huge, but don't forget he brings SKILLS along with that package. HOW MANY 6'8 260 lbs DUDES YOU KNOW CAN DRIBBLE, PASS, AND DRIVE AS QUICKLY AND EXPLOSIVELY AS HE DOES? That's just not size...that's the PERFECT combination of size and skills, that not even Michael Jordan possessed. End of story.

STOP HATING


How could I forget "HE doesn't have the competitive drive". Just because he does ti with a smile and doesn't look like a man possessed when he plays ala Kobe and Jordan, does not mean he doesn't have the drive. Obviously the vast improvments he has made on his game in the offseason, and the way he led his team to an amazing regular season with only 2 home losses shoes the drive he has...not to mention a few years ago when he willed his team back from an 0-2 deficit in the ECF with the Pistons highlighted by that monster game where he scored liek 25 or so points consecutively. If that's not killer instinct and competitive drive then what is?

Y'all would be better off to silently hate on him...cause what y'all are coming up with as reasons are quite stupid and bordering on ignorant.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

How could I forget "HE doesn't have the competitive drive". Just because he does ti with asmile and doesn't look like a man possessed when he plays ala Kobe and Jordan, does not mean he doesn't have the drive. Obviously the vast improvmentshe has made on his game in the offseason, and the way he led his team to an amazing regular season with only 2 home losses shoes the drive he has...not tomention a few years ago when he willed his team back from an 0-2 deficit in the ECF with the Pistons highlighted by that monster game where he scored liek 25or so points consecutively. If that's not killer instinct and competitive drive then what is?

Y'all would be better off to silently hate on him...cause what y'all are coming up with as reasons are quite stupid and bordering on ignorant.

 

[tmoney85]

sadly, i finally realize that LBJ>KOBE



its a sad sad sad day in my life today.

 

[ghengesk]

Listen to your Elders, kids.

 

[outacontrol music]

Originally Posted by tmoney85

sadly, i finally realize that LBJ>KOBE



its a sad sad sad day in my life today.

 

[xbiker47]

Originally Posted by GhengesK

You're about 2 years late.

His "coming out" game was Game 5 vs. the Detroit in 2007.

This is one of those game I think I will never forget, this will be one of the top 5 best performances of his life when it is all said anddone

 

[al3xis]

he'd need 7 rings to be the GOAT so let's stop that.

it's stupid to discuss and doesn't detract from how great he is or will be. It's just Mike is Mike.


But, I don't think we can question his mental make up or killer instinct. I know he'd never stop playing in a decisive game, lose a 20+ point lead inthe playoffs at home or get blown out to end a series. if you're gona beat LeBron these past 2 years you are going to earn it. That's a competitor withkiller instinct IMO. Kobe DOES have it to, but please...let's not put him above and beyond anyone.

Does Tim Duncan walk around like Mike or Kobe? No...not even close....did he have that mentality to win? absolutely.

I think how good of a leader he is, also is overlooked.

Right now he's the best player in the world (he's been that) but now he also has the best team.

..

The Cavs are NOT built for a Dynasty tho, they are built to win now. If they keep it going, pieces will change a lot and it will all be due to LeBron. theirwhole frontcourt minus Andy is on the way out.



...
OP is right, just enjoy him for what he is right now.

 

[gko2408]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

every great player adds dimensions to their game every year. Jordan just did it beyond the level of anybody else who has ever played. you have to realize that despite all of Lebron's improvements and achievements, he is still not on a progression to surpass Jordan. nobody is. so it's not like you can just say "well, if he keeps doing what he's doing, he'll be better than MJ in no time." the hardest worker and most mentally tough player in the NBA right now is still falling well short of MJ. Lebron has more talent to start with, but he will at least have to equal that work ethic and mentality to even come close.

and you say Lebron has the Jordanesque-killer instinct inside? really? if you say so... but ask any basketball fan for the top 5 players in NBA history who they'd want with the ball in their hands for a final possession, and none of them will name Lebron, at least not right now. everybody will name Jordan (as well as an active NBA player: Kobe Bryant, hence why i mentioned him) among that five.
we know Lebron won the genetic lottery physically, but assuming that he was also born with Jordan's 1-in-a-million mental tools would be a stretch.

i'm not hating on Lebron or anything. i just hate when people act like he will easily be the GOAT. not necessarily aimed at you, but i always hear people say stuff like "oh, imagine what Lebron will be like 5 years from now, he'll easily surpass Jordan" blah blah. he has more natural talent than anybody, but if he wants to be the GOAT, he can't just get by off of that. he will have to step the mental aspect of his game up to inhuman levels, which is what Jordan did.

What you're talking about is what I mentioned in my first post -- the need for players to adjust their games as their body breaks down. Jordan worked on his J, fadeaway, and post-up when he wasn't able to jump anymore. With LeBron, he might not even have to work on his J. He is a powerforward playing the perimeter. The way I see his career progressing, if it stays at GOAT status, is a trend towards playing with his back to the basket andworking from there. He's shown that he has the work ethic...just look at how poorly his J and D were up until this year. It's all about if he'sable to adjust as he gets older.

With the killer's mentality argument...nobody is going to come close to Jordan in the department. But that's not going to stop LeBron from being GOAT. The way LeBron goes about playing the game, if he had MJ/Kobe's mentality, his teammates would hate him and his style of play would never work.

 

[lazy b]

I'd trade anything to have his athleticism. It just isn't fair.

 

[doctorshoes]

People can knock him for his lack of "skills" or whatever, but the fact is that he produces at a level that only the elites could, and that'sgood enough for me to consider him one of the greats.

 

[justwinbaby]

I love watching LBJ he's an animal.

 

[sincereone03]

What impresses me is that he is a real student of the game. Did you hear him give all those stats and second half adjustments in his halftime interview? Ijaw dropped, i was like this guy is working on his announcer/nba analyst job already. He was spitting out crazy stats, he should be on PTI, Around the Horn,or or or duel it out with Skip on 1st and 10 for a day, would def. DVR that...

 

[belle155]

im tired of hearing about jordan. he was always my favorite player growing up but not anymore. he hasnt been for a while. jordan was like a robot that playedbball. he didnt have a personality, anything he said seemed forced. lebron seems genuine and real easy to get along with. im pretty sure hed never punch ateammate in the face or make em cry. ive met him before and he is pretty down to earth for being who he is and having what he has. he just needs a legit bigman (young) who will be around for a while because Z wont be around much longer. if we get a year in year out all star on the team, we will have a dynasty andpeople will have a new GOAT.


ive seen him play about 30 times this year and theres somethin new every game. just the past 3 games i saw were full of highlight clips. all these buzzerbeaters, the half court runner against detroit, the reverse dunk at the buzzer, the STEP BACK 40 footer...every game is somethin new. im like animalthug too,been goin to games since high school. i remember when the JAR was standing room only with over 5000 crammed in there to watch some of his high school games.

 

[chitown85]

If you think Jordan didnt have a personality and was a robot you obviously didn't watch enough of his games or see any of his commercials etc. In fact, itwas Jordan's personality and love of the game that made him the most popular athlete in the world. I made this post saying Lebron is truely incredible butat the same time he will never be on Michael's level. Plus, the defenses Jordan went up against were 100X more difficult. For example watch videos likethis on youtube and ull understand. hand checking was allowed when Mike played

 

[nyk buc]

i have never seen any player raise their level of play since shaq did during the 3peat when he routinely put up 30 and 15 on the regular.

lebron: 33.7ppg, 10rpg, 6.6apg, 2.14spg, with a PER of 45. ridiculous.

 

[al3xis]

and there's zone now.

The hawks have gone with a little matchup zone this series, but it's not mattering much now cause LeBron has guys who can make shots.

as far as defense's go, it's a wash. do you really think hand checking on someone with LeBron's speed and strength would hamper him that much?



but yeah, no he'll never be MJ, and yes MJ definitely had a personality.