African Descendants ✊🏿 Black People - Americas, Africa, Caribbean Culture Discussion

[Coromanti]

Can you elaborate on this? It wasn't until I moved back to Africa that I found out that you can be born in a country without gaining citizenship.

Most of the world is like this.

 

[layziegunts]

 

[Coromanti]

Is this true?

This is hot garbage.

A middle eastern Jew, existence verified by non-Christian sources both religious and non-religious alike, whose initial group of converts were other middle eastern and later african peoples, is a white supremacist tool?

Y'all need to realize the world is bigger than 'the West', plenty of brown and black bodies have died in the name of Christ unrelated to the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches. To this day, Christians in the Middle East and Africa face persecution.

 

[layziegunts]

This is hot garbage.

A middle eastern Jew, existence verified by non-Christian sources both religious and non-religious alike, whose initial group of converts were other middle eastern and later african peoples, is a white supremacist tool?

Y'all need to realize the world is bigger than 'the West', plenty of brown and black bodies have died in the name of Christ unrelated to the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches. To this day, Christians in the Middle East and Africa face persecution.

let me guess youre a Christian arent you?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

This is hot garbage.

A middle eastern Jew, existence verified by non-Christian sources both religious and non-religious alike, whose initial group of converts were other middle eastern and later african peoples, is a white supremacist tool?

Y'all need to realize the world is bigger than 'the West', plenty of brown and black bodies have died in the name of Christ unrelated to the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches. To this day, Christians in the Middle East and Africa face persecution.

You’re right, Jesus was a real person and he wasn’t white. But WHITE jesus has defintely was used as a tool of for white supremacy and still is.

 

[Coromanti]

let me guess youre a Christian arent you?

Orthodox Christian, yes. My faith however does not factor here. There are serious factual errors in the image, derived from a Western-centric view of the Christian religion.

 

[RustyShackleford]

This is hot garbage.

A middle eastern Jew, existence verified by non-Christian sources both religious and non-religious alike, whose initial group of converts were other middle eastern and later african peoples, is a white supremacist tool?

Y'all need to realize the world is bigger than 'the West', plenty of brown and black bodies have died in the name of Christ unrelated to the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches. To this day, Christians in the Middle East and Africa face persecution.

I think they are talking about the depiction of Jesus as a blonded haired blue eyed white man (which he was not) being the problem. Not Jesus himself or Christianity.

And I believe they have a point.

 

[Coromanti]

You’re right, Jesus was a real person and he wasn’t white. But WHITE jesus has defintely was used as a tool of for white supremacy and still is.

I don't know what that means. Adaptation of the image of Christ is present in every Christianized culture. Go to Korea, Jesus looks Korean. Go to Ethiopia, Jesus looks Ethiopian. And so on. Help me understand what you mean.

 

[Coromanti]

I think they are talking about the depiction of Jesus as a blonded haired blue eyed white man (which he was not) being the problem. Not Jesus himself or Christianity.

And I believe they have a point.

See my previous post, no culture represents Jesus 'acurately'. But you're right to say that Western Europeans have insisted that Jesus looked like them when he very obviously did not and theyre wrong for that.

 

[gry60]

This is hot garbage.

A middle eastern Jew, existence verified by non-Christian sources both religious and non-religious alike, whose initial group of converts were other middle eastern and later african peoples, is a white supremacist tool?

Y'all need to realize the world is bigger than 'the West', plenty of brown and black bodies have died in the name of Christ unrelated to the Protestant and Roman Catholic churches. To this day, Christians in the Middle East and Africa face persecution.

You talking about Ethiopians and Coptic Christians, or the West Africans who were told not to worry about the land that was taken over because they will get many more riches after salvation?

The story of colonialism is not complete without the role of the Church (and the caliphates, if we're talking about the spread of Islam in pre-colonial Africa). Missionaries played a crucial role in the advancement of European interests in Africa. The churches they built were funded by their governments, and the schools they managed pushed a eurocentric, Christian view of the world on the locals at the expense of local traditions (with or without the blessing of local authorities).

 

[Nouss]

Most of the world is like this.

Yea, growing up here, I didnt find that out till my 20s

 

[Present]

Heru (Kemet) > Horus (Greek) > Jesus (Judah) > White Jesus (Italy)

Black > White > Brown > White

Kemet conquored by Greeks

Judah (and Greece) conquored by Romans

Nothing new under the "Sun"

Winston Churchill - History is written by the victors.

 

[RustyShackleford]

See my previous post, no culture represents Jesus 'acurately'. But you're right to say that Western Europeans have insisted that Jesus looked like them when he very obviously did not and theyre wrong for that.

Ok. But the point they are making that of course Jesus didn't look like that but white supremacists have mixed religious defense for their exploitation and plundler or black and brown minority groups. Arguing over and over that it was their divine right to do what they were doing.

Part of that strategy is depicting Jesus as looking more like them than the people that they oppress or wish to oppress. Because your argument of divine right of power over people kinda falls apart when everyone notices Jesus looks more like the oppressed than the oppressors.

The depiction of Jesus as a white man has had a more dangerous use than other parts of the world depiction of him. It is not as innocuous as that.

 

[Coromanti]

You talking about Ethiopians and Coptic Christians, or the West Africans who were told not to worry about the land that was taken over because they will get many more riches after salvation?

The story of colonialism is not complete without the role of the Church (and the caliphates, if we're talking about the spread of Islam in pre-colonial Africa). Missionaries played a crucial role in the advancement of European interests in Africa. The churches they built were funded by their governments, and the schools they managed pushed a eurocentric, Christian view of the world on the locals at the expense of local traditions (with or without the blessing of local authorities).

Ok, I get you now. Sometimes I get caught up in the Orthodoxy thing that I missed the forest for the trees. My bad. Yea, the RCC and Protestant churches have much to answer for in their collaboration with their home country's imperialist ambitions. Portraying God in their image and forcing the religion on the people has caused near irreparable harm. I myself believe in Universal salvation and thus don't believe conversion to be necessary (a point that puts me at odds with my church but that's a topic of another time).

It's part of the reason I couldn't join a western church when i began to believe again. There has been no attempt in an official and public way to rectify the damage or even apologize.

 

[KHUFU]

HI CHRISTIANS!

Fifteenth-century Iberian legal traditions regulated Christians’ treatment of Jews, Muslims, and other Christians, clearly delineating, for example, who was enslaveable and who was not. In contrast, the juridical status of people who did not fit these categories was more ambiguous. Legal and philosophical arguments to address this issue began to evolve during the second half of the fifteenth century, once Portuguese mariners began to return to Iberia with captives acquired in West Africa and West Central Africa. Notably, the treatment of “black Gentiles” was addressed in 1452 and 1455, when Pope Nicolas V issued a series of papal bulls that granted Portugal the right to enslave sub-Saharan Africans. Church leaders argued that slavery served as a natural deterrent and Christianizing influence to “barbarous” behavior among pagans. Using this logic, the Pope issued a mandate to the Portuguese king, Alfonso V, and instructed him:
. . . to invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever …[and] to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery, and to apply and appropriate to himself and his successors the kingdoms, dukedoms, counties, principalities, dominions, possessions, and goods, and to convert them to his and their use and profit . . .

Pope Nicolas V and the Portuguese Slave Trade · African Laborers for a New Empire: Iberia, Slavery, and the Atlantic World · Lowcountry Digital History Initiative

The above also shows that the initial slave trade was not based upon race, as racism was created right here in good ol' 'merica!

 

[wr]

How can you not see the racism in all that?

 

[KHUFU]

How can you not see the racism in all that?

What you see right there is not racism. What is clear in that writing is that their theory of supremacy had nothing to do with the color of African skin, it had everything to do with their supposed god, just as with their looking down upon the jews.

The belief of having darker skin being inferior, was established in america. That, is racism.

Here, African's were allowed to convert....The Papal Bull of 1455 justified the expansion of (black) African slavery within early Iberian colonies, and the acquisition of more African captives and territory, but the same decree also provided a legal framework for sub-Saharan Africans to negotiate with Iberian authorities on equal footing, and to make claims of their own, should they convert to Christianity. Perhaps the best-known example of this form of negotiation is found in the Kingdom of Kongo in West Central Africa. During the late fifteenth and early sixteenth centuries, Kongolese political elites adopted Christianity and sent emissaries to Europe. In the 1520s, Kongo’s Christian ruler used diplomatic pressure based on his religious status to try to limit the Portuguese slave trade from Kongo.

 

[wr]

During the Inquisition renouncing your cultural lineage was the only way you could own an estate and have a right to travel with out being deemed as a slave or worthy of capture.

That whole area of Europe was a bunch of loosely organized kingdoms and city states. African,Muslim, Christian and Jewish. Christianity was the flag white Europe United under to drive out the "others".

 

[KHUFU]

During the Inquisition renouncing your cultural lineage was the only way you could own an estate and have a right to travel with out being deemed as a slave or worthy of capture.

That whole area of Europe was a bunch of loosely organized kingdoms and city states. African,Muslim, Christian and Jewish. Christianity was the flag white Europe United under to drive out the "others".

Yes, but they still did not state that Africans were inferior, due to the color of their skin. The Africans were denied their rights due to their not being christian. That in all estimates is tribalism, not racism. They had stated through religion that women were indeed inferior due to gender, thus sexism and misogyny, but they had not stated that Africans were inferior due to the color of their skin. That did not happen until the United States of America declared it as such, and then did so through the creation of legal means.

 

[layziegunts]

Uugghh
Black people

1. Christianity and Islam were just used against us to control us
2. There is no imaginary man in the sky and it’s all make believe things

let’s move on from religion and especially Christianity please.

 

[wr]

I see what you're saying. But honestly we gotta understand we're discussing this in the future and the concept of race was different.

I feel like the plan all along was to isolate the blackness little by little.
Don't put it past folks to have a 1000 year plan.

 

[KHUFU]

You are giving them waaaaaaay too much credit.

 

[layziegunts]

 

[htg designs]

I disagree. I mean this is a part of it. But a minor part. I think it's a lack of self identity. United we stand, divided we fall. We (generally speaking) in America don't operate from a belief and firm understanding we come from a lineage of Kings, we just believe we come from slaves from Africa. We were on this land before the colonizers came and have a rich global history and presence. Many dont know that or operate from the standpoint.

But burned into our minds is that we suffered her for so long and are still suffering, its easier to be and remain conquered/ the oppressed.

If you have a firm grip of who you are and what you stand for, no body can come to you **** bout no white Jesus or anything else. You would tell them foh of the rip. It just wouldn't be effective at all. But it works because we are vulnerable, trying to find answers externally and not looking within and seeking evidence of truth from our past, before the trans- atlantic slavery.

Original man, flesh fed and empowered by the sun while it sets other ablaze. Full of soul, creativity and a vigor that cannot be matched. But if you dont know who you are, you allow others to decide for you.

 

[layziegunts]

htg designs I agree when you said "Its a part of it"