2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

[ooiron manoo]

cabrera

I stuck to the four mentioned, simply because Cabrera is the league leader in OPS.

Speaking of Cabrera, it's ironic the same crowd saying defense is a wash/baserunning is a wash in this "argument" were against Cabrera getting the MVP over Trout last year.

you only get 27 outs in baseball you perserve them at all costs.

30 points of obp is the difference between a replacement player and a league average hitter.

making outs is bad.

While you finally make a valid point, it's much more complicated than that.

 

[proshares]

Used baseball references metric, and no it's not wrong. Hence why I said, that it's easy to poke holes in new metrics.

I don't have a horse in this race FWIW.

It's wrong. BR's WAR isn't accurate. They use a created metric for the value of baserunning and runs created with stolen bases which is way off. Plus, they use total zone instead of UZR for defense which is another crappy metric. Go by Fangraphs WAR.

Bonds 1990 WAR - 9.9
1993 WAR - 10.5
Griffey 1996 WAR - 9.7
1997 WAR - 9.0

 

[proshares]

cabrera

I stuck to the four mentioned, simply because Cabrera is the league leader in OPS.

Speaking of Cabrera, it's ironic the same crowd saying defense is a wash/baserunning is a wash in this "argument" were against Cabrera getting the MVP over Trout last year.

What are you talking about man? Again, you're making some outrageous comparisons.

Griffey and Bonds are a wash with baserunning and fielding because Griffey was > Bonds in the field and Bonds was > Griffey on the bases. That is what is meant when he said they are a wash.

Trout and Cabrera is a whole other category, that has absolutely nothing to do with this.

 

[ooiron manoo]

I go back and forth between Fangraphs and BR, metrics become convoluted, reason why old school evaluation will not go away.

There is more to baseball than algorithms and preserving 27 outs.

If Bonds is your guy, cool. Griffey is mine. Didn't get why it was so jaw dropping though, .

Trout and Cabrera is a whole other category, that has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Wasn't even comparing, more like pointing out the irony. One of the arguments for Trout was that he was a premium defender while Cabrera was below average. Was it not?

Barry wasn't below average, he was actually above average, but there is value in playing CF as opposed to one of the corners.

Already turned into more than what it should've been, and I can see it being misinterpreted as me saying that Griffey is hands down better than Bonds. In reality, not the case, it's simple. From 1986-2000, Bonds and Griffey were on the same level. People who value wOBA would side with Bonds while people who value a bit more power and better defense would value Griffey a bit more.

Posted facts to shed light and apparently I have an agenda. .

 

[jewbacca]

OPS is a bad stat, period. To quote from fangraphs, "On-base plus slugging (OPS) does attempt to combine the different aspects of hitting into one metric, but it assumes that one percentage point of SLG is the same as that of OBP. In reality, a handy estimate is that OBP is around twice as valuable than SLG (the exact ratio is x1.8)."

wOBA is "based on a simple concept: Not all hits are created equal. Batting average assumes that they are. On-base percentage does too, but does one better by including other ways of reaching base. Slugging percentage weights hits, but not accurately (Is a double worth twice as much as a single? In short, no). Weighted On-Base Average combines all the different aspects of hitting into one metric, weighting each of them in proportion to their actual run value. While batting average, on-base percentage, and slugging percentage fall short in accuracy and scope, wOBA measures and captures offensive value more accurately and comprehensively."

 wOBA > OPS. If someone fails to recognize that wOBA it is a better metric, It is probably not worth arguing anything baseball with that person. 

edit: no idea whats going on with the formatting 

 

[freddie black]

Wil Myers has been raking.  Reminds me a lot of when Longo came up.

 

[steelcity412]

crazy comeback...down 7-3 going into the 9th and we tie it up, harrison in a clutch moment.

now if we can just come out of here with a 4 game sweep and keep our win streak going would be great

 

[ooiron manoo]

You copy/pasted and kept the font.

I don't think anyone is defending OPS, , or using it as a basis for a deciding factor. It's merely a part of a slash line.

There isn't one stand alone metric that is flawless.

 

[madj55]

#HARPGOD WALK-OFF LETS GO

 

[steelcity412]

Well there goes that, walkoff HR by harper

damn man, such a great comeback too

 

[dmxfury]

Ahhhh, nuts

 

[jewbacca]

You copy/pasted and kept the font.

I don't think anyone is defending OPS, , or using it as a basis for a deciding factor. It's merely a part of a slash line.

There isn't one stand alone metric that is flawless.

BA/OBP/SLG are the traditional slash stats to me.

You're right that no metric is flawless, but as a whole are way better for analyzing player value than any traditional stats.

I'm not saying this is you, but it drives me nuts when people dismiss advanced metrics because they don't understand them, or try to. I had to take a handful of stats and stats based classes for my degree, so a lot of this just makes me SMH lol

 

[jewbacca]

http://deadspin.com/former-mlb-scrub-admits-steroid-use-914386565

 

[dland24]

Too bad Saltalamacchia was safe, but this was AWESOME!

http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tumblr_mqh94s7PyH1ro5xweo1_4001.gif

(getting an error message.  can someone embed?)

 

[tommyicerocking]

Too bad Saltalamacchia was safe, but this was AWESOME!

http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tumblr_mqh94s7PyH1ro5xweo1_4001.gif

(getting an error message.  can someone embed?)

ill

 

[Clyde Frog]

Just curious about your guys opinion on Braun. Is he getting this amount of hate because of Kemp not getting the MVP, just because of the way he is, or because he's just the most recent big named player to get caught? I guess I would assume a combination of all 3. Thing is we're sitting over here admiring Bonds when we all know he was juicing. Is that because his story was years ago, the hush died down, so now we're back to admiring how good he was? This biogenesis lab guy has said what there were 90 names? And now he's talking about PED's in the NBA, NCAA, MMA, Tennis ect. I'm asking because this is more than likely sooo much bigger than Braun. Him telling the truth leads me to beleive so. It sucks that the superstar on my team cheated so as a fan I gotta deal with that for now on but that's honestly why it doesn't bother me as much as it should.

Something else that I was thinking about was yea Braun lied...but as far as I know everyone who has ever been accused of such has denied it right away. Braun actually had the balls to go admit it. We're all crucifying him cause he lied yet he is one of the first if not the first guy in his prime to admit it. Isn't that somewhat commendable? Because of that he may be helping the cause. Obviously he deserves hate for cheating but I think its ironic that everyone's hating him for lying yet he's the only one to tell the truth. Is he the first MLB star to admit it in his prime? I'm not sure.

The reactions to this in Milwaukee are very interesting by the way.

 

[freddie black]

Too bad Saltalamacchia was safe, but this was AWESOME!

(getting an error message.  can someone embed?)

Replaced it with a less grainy version.

Torres has been sick.  30.1 IP 0.30 ERA 8 H 37 K.

That's a 4.6 K to HIT ratio.

 

[denni5themenace]

Just curious about your guys opinion on Braun. Is he getting this amount of hate because of Kemp not getting the MVP, just because of the way he is, or because he's just the most recent big named player to get caught? I guess I would assume a combination of all 3. Thing is we're sitting over here admiring Bonds when we all know he was juicing. Is that because his story was years ago, the hush died down, so now we're back to admiring how good he was? This biogenesis lab guy has said what there were 90 names? And now he's talking about PED's in the NBA, NCAA, MMA, Tennis ect. I'm asking because this is more than likely sooo much bigger than Braun. Him telling the truth leads me to beleive so. It sucks that the superstar on my team cheated so as a fan I gotta deal with that for now on but that's honestly why it doesn't bother me as much as it should.

Something else that I was thinking about was yea Braun lied...but as far as I know everyone who has ever been accused of such has denied it right away. Braun actually had the balls to go admit it. We're all crucifying him cause he lied yet he is one of the first if not the first guy in his prime to admit it. Isn't that somewhat commendable? Because of that he may be helping the cause. Obviously he deserves hate for cheating but I think its ironic that everyone's hating him for lying yet he's the only one to tell the truth. Is he the first MLB star to admit it in his prime? I'm not sure.

The reactions to this in Milwaukee are very interesting by the way.

how is admitting to the fact after you get caught commendable? dude is a fraud and a scumbag

 

[rben13]

Not this year, but next year and 2015 my Mariners are going to be nice.

 

[rben13]

For the first time in years it feels like there's no spot in the lineup that's a giveaway out

 

[Clyde Frog]

how is admitting to the fact after you get caught commendable? dude is a fraud and a scumbag

You're right he cheated and he's a scumbag for that. No disputing that. No ones gonna admit it before the fact, the whole point of cheating is to get away with it. At the same time though he did admit it. No one does that. Which is why I'm asking is he only getting this amount if hate because it just happened or for the other reasons I listed? I guess out of all the cheaters he should be commended the most. Yet we're praising how good Bonds was over here. There's a list of names, alot of names, and they will be caught, I have no reason to beleive any of them will come out and admit it. But Braun did. He did what everyone wants and what very few do. Tell the truth. He could have rode this out for a long time if he wanted to. See what I'm getting at? I'm not disputing he's scum for what he did.

 

[denni5themenace]

it would have been commendable if he came out and admitted it the first time. instead he gave that speech, slandered an innocent person's name, and retained his innocence.

now that more evidence has surfaced, dude waited to see what the mlb had on him. what happened to the "tony bosch was only used for consulting purposes" line he used? more lies.

the chips were stacked against him and he cut a deal like the scumbag he is to lessen the punishment.

so no, i'm not going to give him his props for being the first to come out and admit it.

 

[jjs07]

What exactly did Braun admit to? Maybe I missed something...

He's a ******g joke and I wish there was a way for the guy who collected the sample, to sue his ***.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Be happy brewers fan, you weren't going anywhere, he'll be back crushing baseballs next year as per usual.

 

[kevin cleveland]

Not this year, but next year and 2015 my Mariners are going to be nice.

For the first time in years it feels like there's no spot in the lineup that's a giveaway out

You probably could have picked a better time than after they scored five earned runs in a three-game set to post this.