2014-15 Lakers Season Thread (21-61) KAT

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Right. Not as simple as "just lose every game and then sign the best players in free agency". Just look at the Sixers. They've done everything shy of getting lost on the way to the arena and they just pounded one of the best teams in the league. Everything suggested as a strategy to tank is a coaching decision. Just as you can't expect players to do anything less than compete, the same notion applies to coaches. Yea it would be great to have a core of two young studs thru the draft and go right ahead and sign the best available free agents but it's not that simple in the real world

Correction - mem/phi still tbd

 

[bravelude]

where the pics at dough? lol

 

[essential1]

Swaggyficient P

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[sb]

I ain't witness all 16 you clowns.

Freeze, really dude? You need me to hold your hand to understand how to manage the team?

Don't play Kobe 40 minutes.
Don't play Kobe and Nick together down the stretch.
Don't play my best 5 late in games.
Mix and match personnel late. Play Wes/Price/Boozer for "defense"
Don't double opposing star.
Play Clarkson more minutes.

Like has been said, players can't be held accountable for playing hard. The front office/staff has to be in charge.
Trade Hill/Lin.

It's fine to be "hopeful" to make playoffs with Nash, Randle etc healthy. The moment you lost them, FOLD up the tent to improve team going forward. We aren't teaching Randle poor habits, because he's not even ****** playing.

We aren't running our mouths without solution, we expect you as a fan to understand how it works.
I didn't know I had to spell every detail for every post to be comprehended. My bad.

No, I got that, all of that, Your ideas are simple, but they're still nonsensical. How do you not play your best 5 late in games? Winnable games. And they are healthy and available. How do you explain such actions? Because people are going to ask. There are consequences for every choice. You believe Kobe and Nick are going to be quiet about that? All one reporter has to do is ask two questions...'Were you hurt?....Well why weren't you playing?' It's obvious you've never managed anything before because you don not consider the effects of your choices...to just tank, while also spewing in every interview that you are not tanking. Literally nothing you're saying makes sense. I understand that you want it to make sense, and you're trying really hard to push your agenda, and in some fantasy world, I'm sure it does, and I'm sure that strategy can achieve all of the losses that you want, but it's not that easy to hide your intentions. People are pretty smart. Observant. It'd be pretty clear to anyone with eyes that if Kobe and Nick are not in the game, down the stretch, in winnable games mind you, that there is something shady going on. And besides all of that, besides everything I just said, YOU, as a General Manager, YOU, would pay a healthy player $24 million & 4.5 million to sit on the bench? That's the type of decision that you would make? Lol and you have the nerve to talk down to me? Don't ever insult my intelligence again sir.

 

[rck3sactown]

Seems like some yall just arent as smart as others

 

 

[CP1708]

Freeze is plenty smart, we just differ on an opinion is all.

It's a fresh game last night, so I will use it as a PERFECT example.

Pop. Great coach. Controls every detail.

53 minute game. 48+5 OT. 53.

Tony Parker 18 minutes.
Boris Diaw 19 minutes.
Kawhi Leonard DNP.

So, I was asked, if Iiiiiiiiiiiiii am the coach, me, CP, how can I "not play my best guys?"

Well, did Pop?

We in the same game, why am I playin balls out, while he restin guys?

He played Duncan 40 minutes.

Tim Duncan sat out the game before. In fact, Duncan has sat out multiple games this year.

Has Kobe?

Pop is a coach, I am a coach, so I can do what he does, right?

If Pop wants to play his whole team, all 12, then I can play my 12. If we win, great, pat them boys on the back for a job well done.

But if Pop only gonna play 9, why am I usin 12? What did I gain last night?

If I play Kobe 31 minutes, and Nick 28, and Jordan Hill 29, and Clarkson 20, do we still win? Maybe, maybe not. But I bet my chances are lesser than Kobe 40, Young 32, Hill 35, and Clarkson barely works up a sweat.


Coach can control what does or doesn't happen. Pop just showed you.

If I believed in conspiracies, I'd say Pop doesn't want us to get a top 5 pick, wanted to rest 2-3 guys, AND now has a motivational angle to use on his players to remind them any given night you can get beat, even by bad teams.

Like Phil used to, when we would face the Bobcats.


But what do I know? I'm just a "fantasy" thinker.

 

[mr j 858]

 

[freeze]

Freeze is plenty smart, we just differ on an opinion is all.

It's a fresh game last night, so I will use it as a PERFECT example.

Pop. Great coach. Controls every detail.

53 minute game. 48+5 OT. 53.

Tony Parker 18 minutes.
Boris Diaw 19 minutes.
Kawhi Leonard DNP.

So, I was asked, if Iiiiiiiiiiiiii am the coach, me, CP, how can I "not play my best guys?"

Well, did Pop?

We in the same game, why am I playin balls out, while he restin guys?

He played Duncan 40 minutes.

Tim Duncan sat out the game before. In fact, Duncan has sat out multiple games this year.

Has Kobe?

Pop is a coach, I am a coach, so I can do what he does, right?

If Pop wants to play his whole team, all 12, then I can play my 12. If we win, great, pat them boys on the back for a job well done.

But if Pop only gonna play 9, why am I usin 12? What did I gain last night?

If I play Kobe 31 minutes, and Nick 28, and Jordan Hill 29, and Clarkson 20, do we still win? Maybe, maybe not. But I bet my chances are lesser than Kobe 40, Young 32, Hill 35, and Clarkson barely works up a sweat.


Coach can control what does or doesn't happen. Pop just showed you.

If I believed in conspiracies, I'd say Pop doesn't want us to get a top 5 pick, wanted to rest 2-3 guys, AND now has a motivational angle to use on his players to remind them any given night you can get beat, even by bad teams.

Like Phil used to, when we would face the Bobcats.


But what do I know? I'm just a "fantasy" thinker.

The issue with using the Spurs as the example is, they're an anomaly. They aren't the rule, but the exception. They are one of if not the only team that legit sits its players. Plus the fact with the way the team is built, they do not lose much going to the bench, plus the game plan and the strategies stay the same. Plus, which is the biggest piece, every player on the team buys into Pop, so if they are unhappy, we never know it. They are a special breed, almost unprecedented. The Lakers, well this Lakers, is nothing like the Spurs. We have a completely different team when we go to our bench. Kobe is going to Kobe and he wants to be the Mamba every night. Who is going to tell him that he's getting a DNP and for no reason but to benefit the team in the future?


Pop rests his guys because

A. He realizes that even with his Big 3 off the floor, they still have threats.
B. He sees the bigger picture. And realizes a game dropped here and there means less than running out of gas deep in the playoffs.
C. Pop is pretty arrogant. I remember when he sat his guys during the Heat game a year back, it was hilarious.

But that comes back to the main reason he sits his guys...Rest. He expects a deep playoff run. If we (The Lakers) are already conceding to no playoffs, where is the benefit in a 'resting 36 yr old Kobe', since you said that would be our excuse. What would we be resting him for exactly? When they ask I mean. When Pop rests his guys, everybody knows it is strategy, because the makeup of their team is so strong. Our situation is completely different. If we were to even attempt that...it would be one of the most embarrassing games in our history. :x. Outside of kobe and nick, nobody else can even create for themselves. The very next game they'd go back to trying hard again and doing what seems to work enough. It's like when dudes wanted to grow a fro back in the day, but wouldn't stay strong during that ugly stage in the beginning, where it wasn't short enough to keep brushed nor long enough to pick into the steve harvey, and they couldn't stand getting clowned so they cut it before they actually got the length they wanted. The Lakers would have to be too bad for too long for any of this to benefit us, and from coming from a standpoint of being great for sooo long, nobody has the patience to just be awful and not try, even if it is a Sisyphean task.

 

[freeze]

Kobe's gonna talk about the rape case???

 

[6 Rings G.O.A.T.]

Muse..

 

[CP1708]

One. Year.

They need to be bad, for one, year. There is no "too bad, for too long."

A single year.

Next year, they go right back to pushing hard for playoffs. Teaching young guys. Honoring Kobe. The young Russ/Durant stage. The young Steph/Klay stage. The young Blake/DeAndre stage. Young Marbury/Garnett.

Play hard. Young, energetic, tough, athletic, exciting, push for 35-40-45 wins. Sneak into playoffs, etc. Give the 16th pick to the Suns, but have our 2017 pick back in our pocket.

One year. Scott only needs to puppet this team one year.

Again, what benefit do we gain coming back from 10 down without Dwight? Without Cousins? Without 3 Spurs? Without DeRozan? We were ALREADY down big.

If you jump ahead Q1, carry the lead the whole game, sure, fine, get that W that you earned.

You're already losing, double digits, on the road, vs a short-manned team, why push for that W, that will only hurt you, and your future?

Accept the L, you already had. Don't risk multiple first round picks so you can say you beat the Spurs, in December, without Leonard, and 2 key guys playing a quarter & a half.

Multiple picks, for an extra win or two. Not exactly a wise trade off.

 

[essential1]

Technically it's 2 years. Because we did this last year as well.

There's also a scenario of getting a 13th pick. But that would entail trading Hill for a 1st to a team that needs him (that he approves of). Then on draft night taking the new first for Hill, the Rockets first & our 2nd for that 13th pick. A scenario that also helps to try and keep our Top 5 pick.

If we lose our pick, and end up with the 13th pick instead. *Shrugs* Not so bad.

Of course you know I want that Top 5 pick and the second scenario on top. But if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. No reason to be angry or stress about it.



Also the economic principle of law of diminishing returns does exist when it comes to number of draft picks. We haven't reached that point. But that's a definitely something that exists.


Also even if we finish with a bottom 5 record, 45% chance we lose the pick. It's way too much chance to stress it. Exactly like it was last year.



Edit:
@Sheedism on Twitter made a good point.

@Sheedism · It's not a failure by the Lakers to win 35 gms and miss playoffs if potential FA see a team that's not that far away...even if it's a mirage. If FA's are supposedly attracted to young teams w/ lots of picks / flexibility, then why didn't any big names last summer visit Orlando? Great weather, no State tax, been to Finals twice over last 20 yrs etc but they are far far from contending now so...no FA interest. Big FA seem to always go to teams that are on verge of contending, nice weather and great coaches are a plus too. Picks and flexibility, nah

He's not 100% right, because that Top 5 pick would have tremendous value, but not immediately to a big name Free Agent. But what he says has a lot of truth to it. Sure it would make it much easier for the Lakers, to have the Top 5 pick. But if they don't? They don't. They could still have 2 first round picks this year if they deal somebody. If we start winning and end up with 30-35 wins, that could attract a Marc Gasol, who is stuck at a 50 win Memphis. Because he knows at worst he'll be in the same position in the playoffs. But has assurance that at the tail end of his contract, one team will have cap space, and draw interest from Big Names, the other will not. What if Marc Gasol and someone else like a Dragic pick us. Dragic - Kobe - Randle - Gasol. Then 2016 comes, what is more attractive..

I think that each have equal merit in all honesty to getting us to contention.

 

[CP1708]

We sucked last year, didn't tank. (Winning those pointless games late, not flipping Pau/Hill to get even worse)

This year *would* be intentional.


That said, saw a tweet that they are going to show the game tomorrow night for free on LP. So everyone will get to watch Lakers/T-Wolves. Kobe passing MJ, and the #1 pick. Pretty cool the NBA hooked that up.

 

[pmatic]

Shout outs to the Pistons and Magic.

Hornets though.

 

[grandtheftbike]

February

But I want it now

 

[sb]

rockets won

 

[Peep Game]

Hey Laker bros Just had to chime in and join in on the Nick Young love. It's great to see a guy like him with his talent flourish, even as a Laker. I've never seen a guy with the pure drive and undeniable passion he has for the game. It's been a long time since I've seen a guy like him in a Laker jersey, or even in the NBA. He's the man now, and ya'll have to make sure you build around the foundation of this team. Even though Young tries, he can't always do it by himself. he needs help going forward if ya'll plan on winning more titles. Salute

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[Lovetohate3000]

I agree with you totally cp...
.. This year is a waste to begin with . We need to keep our pick... I don't get how you can't see that if we dont get a top pick we are going to set our franchise back that much longer ....


against the spurs I saw the Lakers playing **** out and the spurs not even playing that hard.... Desperate for a win... Wtf for ? I get caught up in a close game as well but I understand the situation right now... We need to keep our pick or we are screwed .....

i loathe nick young.......

I never wanted nick young to be resigned to begin with but it is what it is...

 

[bossdonvah]

I agree it would be smart to try and keep the pick but some of you are acting like this pick is gonna be a guaranteed super star

 

[pmatic]

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2014/12/14/preview-chat-the-minnesota-timberwolves-11/

I advise you guys to read the link above.

 

[CP1708]

I agree it would be smart to try and keep the pick but some of you are acting like this pick is gonna be a guaranteed super star

No sir. Nothing is guaranteed except this....

It's better to keep your top draft pick than give it to a team in your division, AND keep your 2017 pick.

That's the only guarantee. Better to keep two first rounders, than hand them over for Steve Nash and Dwight Howard, two guys not on our team anymore.

Guaranteed.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

If we start winning and end up with 30-35 wins, that could attract a Marc Gasol, who is stuck at a 50 win Memphis. Because he knows at worst he'll be in the same position in the playoffs. But has assurance that at the tail end of his contract, one team will have cap space, and draw interest from Big Names, the other will not. What if Marc Gasol and someone else like a Dragic pick us. Dragic - Kobe - Randle - Gasol. Then 2016 comes, what is more attractive..

I think that each have equal merit in all honesty to getting us to contention.

I don't know how much of an impact a 30-35 win "feel good" season would have with the free agents. Those guys are still gonna see an old Kobe and a bunch of guys that aren't gonna be returning, so I dunno how much a 35-win season would give them a bump in interest. It might be different if Randle were around and had flashes of being special.

If a nice free agent is gonna come, I think he's gonna come whether they win 18 and get a pick or win 35, imo (likely cause of the other reasons you mentioned).

 

[krazyrodzilla]

View media item 1305081 Today 3 years ago this trade got vetoed, we've been cursed ever since [emoji]128545[/emoji]

 

[CP1708]

Don't remind me.

 

[sea manup]

not to get into this argument again but whats even being argued here?

that 30 wins and no pick is just as good as 15 wins and a pick? 

also greetings from shanghai, china