2012 Camaro ZL1 >>_____________

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by voodoo

Originally Posted by StillIn729

you do realize the ZL1 isn't stock right? it's basically a modded car from the factory

That is stock.  If it comes like that from the factory it's stock.  That's like saying a Ferrari Scuderia isn't stock... it's just a modded F430.

I can't argue with some you because you will never get it; you can say it's "stock" but be real it isn't
we got Ninjahood dismissing the 370Z which is $30k less than also dismissing the GTR because it's $30k more just to prove his Camaro is faster 

The very definition of "stock" means it came that way from the factory.  A ZL1 is a stock aka factory car.  If the factory modded the car it is stock.  If you take a stock Camaro and send to to Hennessey or some other tuner then of course it's modded. 

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by voodoo

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by voodoo

That is stock.  If it comes like that from the factory it's stock.  That's like saying a Ferrari Scuderia isn't stock... it's just a modded F430.

I can't argue with some you because you will never get it; you can say it's "stock" but be real it isn't
we got Ninjahood dismissing the 370Z which is $30k less than also dismissing the GTR because it's $30k more just to prove his Camaro is faster 

The very definition of "stock" means it came that way from the factory.  A ZL1 is a stock aka factory car.  If the factory modded the car it is stock.  If you take a stock Camaro and send to to Hennessey or some other tuner then of course it's modded. 

Exactly....JDM cats always run to their safety blanket "wahh wahh if I put $__ in my car it would torch_____"

Camaro ZL1 is stock from da factory, smokin a stock 370z like a blunt of haze in da heightz.GTR being AWD wit sticky tires & 30k more does ZERO damage to da ZL1. Reminds me of da GT500Makin da M3 look overpriced since it only beat it by a 1/10th of a sec & costin 30k more

 

[stillin729]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by voodoo

Originally Posted by StillIn729

I can't argue with some you because you will never get it; you can say it's "stock" but be real it isn't
we got Ninjahood dismissing the 370Z which is $30k less than also dismissing the GTR because it's $30k more just to prove his Camaro is faster 

The very definition of "stock" means it came that way from the factory.  A ZL1 is a stock aka factory car.  If the factory modded the car it is stock.  If you take a stock Camaro and send to to Hennessey or some other tuner then of course it's modded. 

Exactly....JDM cats always run to their safety blanket "wahh wahh if I put $__ in my car it would torch_____"

Camaro ZL1 is stock from da factory, smokin a stock 370z like a blunt of haze in da heightz.GTR being AWD wit sticky tires & 30k more does ZERO damage to da ZL1. Reminds me of da GT500Makin da M3 look overpriced since it only beat it by a 1/10th of a sec & costin 30k more

oh wow congrats a car that cost $30k more can smoke one a 370Z
0-60 times

GTR 2.84 seconds

ZL1  3.90 seconds 

ZL1 would be so far in the rear view 

 

[djisme3]

yall are too funny....can u really go wrong either way for the price?....mod a 370z/STI/EVO with 25-30k.....buy a ZL1....or M3....all preference in ones approach...one is not clearly better than the other....though myself id prefer the first route because it feels like more of a novelty than just buying a "stock" car which in reality is modded lol....point is though, lets stop being fan boys and just accept that all three examples are fairly equal...

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by DJisMe3

lets stop being fan boys and just accept that all three examples are fairly equal...

That will never happen, ignorance on both ends.

 

[marinadelrey]

da heightz

 

[crime wave]

I definitely give credit where credit is due and how far American cars have lost the label of straight line engineering. The ZL1 is definitelya testament to this. But watching the ZL1 lap around Nordschleife, I only have two (visible) complaints. The car under heavy breaking and turn-in into corners is awful, it's completely unstable because of weight transfer. Also, at 550bhp, the car is rather flat at high speeds looking dismal at 160ish.(numerousvariablescan provide the solution for this, maybe gearing or a speed limiter) This would be a even better car if it was put on a diet and a reworked aeros. Definitely a great car for $60K, though.

 

[10 piece nuggets]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by voodoo

The very definition of "stock" means it came that way from the factory.  A ZL1 is a stock aka factory car.  If the factory modded the car it is stock.  If you take a stock Camaro and send to to Hennessey or some other tuner then of course it's modded. 

Exactly....JDM cats always run to their safety blanket "wahh wahh if I put $__ in my car it would torch_____"

Camaro ZL1 is stock from da factory, smokin a stock 370z like a blunt of haze in da heightz.GTR being AWD wit sticky tires & 30k more does ZERO damage to da ZL1. Reminds me of da GT500Makin da M3 look overpriced since it only beat it by a 1/10th of a sec & costin 30k more

oh wow congrats a car that cost $30k more can smoke one a 370Z
0-60 times

GTR 2.84 seconds

ZL1  3.90 seconds 

ZL1 would be so far in the rear view 

Does zero damage?

What are you talking about? No, seriously in the most literally sense, what do you mean zero damage?

 

[odog24]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by voodoo

Originally Posted by StillIn729

you do realize the ZL1 isn't stock right? it's basically a modded car from the factory

That is stock.  If it comes like that from the factory it's stock.  That's like saying a Ferrari Scuderia isn't stock... it's just a modded F430.

I can't argue with some you because you will never get it; you can say it's "stock" but be real it isn't
we got Ninjahood dismissing the 370Z which is $30k less than also dismissing the GTR because it's $30k more just to prove his Camaro is faster 

so then what is stock?
a base model camaro vs a base model 370z?

you dont make sense.

 

[keepzdasneakz]

While you mentioned that imports have trouble in the torque dept, Ninja, you can't include that in an argument regarding dead-stop acceleration. I'm sure you've seen enough videos on youtube to know what a 2-step is and what little significance that device makes for cars that can't build up torque in the bottom end. For me, all things considered, this ZL1 might be more fun to drive than it's higher-revving counter parts mainly because of all that power it produces in the bottom end. Torque is awesome, but for me, I like my cars with more jekyll and hyde schizophrenic personalities. In that respect, I'd probably take an M3, because it's more tame until you wind it up.

As for your picture comparison of both interiors, I ask: Have you SAT in either one yourself? Both pictures don't do each vehicle justice. For the Camaro, it probably give it more credit than is due. I've sat in the camaro and while the design of the interior ok, the materials and not to mention the claustrophobia it induces is not appealing to me. In the M3, the materials and the buttons have a much better feel to it, and the cabin is more air-y...things that I find preferable in a car.

To the guy who was talking nonsense about imports....how could you possibly forgot the great FD3 RX-7? The NSX? The Supra? 300ZX? even the 3000GT? I understand what you're saying about how the direction Japanese companies are taking with their cars being less mod-friendly...but modification is evolving as well. It doesn't mean that Japanese manufacturers aren't producing any fun cars at all. In fact, as a response to all those with your sentiments, Toyota and Subaru are about to release the FT-86

 

[ihatemondayz]

I still don't know why a man who doesn't even own a car even argue. Dude got a lifetime subway card. Go catch the L train "b,money,son"

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by Crime Wave


But watching the ZL1 lap around Nordschleife, I only have two (visible) complaints. The car under heavy breaking and turn-in into corners is awful, it's completely unstable because of weight transfer.

The Nordschleife is a very bumpy and uneven circuit. Not that the quality of pavement is bad but the terrain changes and undulates a lot.

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by odog24

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets




And Ninja never addresses posts like this.

but u modded your 370z for it to be able to compete with the gt500 and the zl1 we are talkin stock.
the 370z should be compared to the gt 5.0 or da ss.

you do realize the ZL1 isn't stock right? it's basically a modded car from the factory

That makes no sense. So is an M3, STI, Evo, etc not stock. Yes its modded but its not like Chevy sends it out to Hennessey to put the supercharger, suspension, etc and sent back to a Chevy dealer. It's made in a Chevy factory and gets shipped directly to a dealer, thats stock. It's engineered by Chevy engineers just like an STI is by Subaru engineers, M3 by BMW, etc, etc. If you buy it from the dealer brand new and its under warranty, its stock.

 

[airphilippines]

A ZL1 is stock

 

[airphilippines]

Originally Posted by jrdnsrnss

Originally Posted by Crime Wave


But watching the ZL1 lap around Nordschleife, I only have two (visible) complaints. The car under heavy breaking and turn-in into corners is awful, it's completely unstable because of weight transfer.

The Nordschleife is a very bumpy and uneven circuit. Not that the quality of pavement is bad but the terrain changes and undulates a lot.

That's the point. Every track is essentially built to have terrain that isn't perfectly flat in order to make it more challenging. Track designers when looking for land look for places with short elevation changes. Just in california alone you have Thunderhill, Infineon, Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow, and Willow Springs which all elevation changes in their design regardless of which configuration is being run.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by milestailsprowe

Originally Posted by ninjahood

i swear, corniest #$+@ ever when it comes to buying cars.....

some of ya would rather have a base model 5 series BONE STOCK with a 4 cylinder engine over a hyundai equus fulled loaded with bulletproof warranty JUST CUZ its got a BMW logo..

Welp that's how 90% of people and NTers see brands such as BMW. Its the fact that it is a BMW that puts it over its competitors to most. 

  A brand is a signature, nothin more, nothin less..is some offers better @ a lower price that'sI can care less of who makes it.

No it's not. 

This isn't some Jordans that is just riding along the crappy retro quality and people buy because of the name. BMW comes with performance. I hate, HATE how the new 3-series looks but it destroyed everything else in it's class and it has a turbo 4 engine. (*Now before someone says I am comparing luxury to a track car/econo boxes, as a disclaimer I am not. I am simply saying that BMW isn't just a name, they also provide performance and are at the top of their game.)

Sporty Luxury Sedan Comparison
The More Things Change: Eight Contenders Vie For Sport Sedan Supremacy

1ST PLACE: BMW 328i Sport Line
2ND PLACE: Volvo S60 T5
3RD PLACE: Mercedes-Benz C250 
4TH PLACE : 2012 Audi A4 Quattro
5TH PLACE: 2011 Lexus IS 250 F-Sport
6TH PLACE: 2012 Acura TSX V-6
7TH PLACE: 2012 Infiniti G25
8TH PLACE : Buick Regal GS  




1ST PLACE: BMW 328i Sport Line
That's First Place With a Competition-Killing Bullet
By: Jonny Lieberman

I want to talk about the big albatross hanging around the new 328i's neck right up front: price. This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560, by far the highest as-tested price of the competition. Shock! Horror! You all will cancel your subscriptions en masse, or say stuff like, "Of course the most expensive car won, get a brain, moran," etc. However, the Bimmer came straight from the U.S. launch of the 3 Series loaded with every option possible. Using BMW's online configurator, you can spec out a mechanically identical 328i Sport Line for $41,095 that would have beat up and choked out the competition just like the one in our test did.

As mentioned, we sat around screaming at each other for over an hour trying to determine if the Buick was in fact a lamer duck than the Infiniti. We spent all of three minutes declaring the BMW best in test and best in class. This is not just a win for the 328i -- it's a massacre. A slaughter. Doomsday. Armageddon. I say this with a straight face: There is no competition. Not only was the BMW's first-place finish never in question, I can't remember a comparison test with such lopsided results. We had a hard time finding bad things to say. Aside from the as-tested price (see above!), the worst anyone could come up with is that the new 2.0-liter twin-scroll I-4 sounds like a diesel. But, as Evans logs, "That's hardly a complaint," and you only hear the clatter-clatter-clatter at idle. Let's call it the sound of efficiency.

The BMW was the fastest car here (0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds and through the quarter in 14.2 at 97.8 mph), beating even the AWD Audi. The 328i rode the best, had the best steering and transmission, is the only car here with start/stop technology, gets a class-leading 36 mpg highway, has the best-laid-out interior, is the most comfortable, has an unbelievable nav screen, and, to top it all off, has the biggest back seat. Ultimately -- and this cuts right through the heart of the sport sedan segment -- the BMW was without question the most fun to drive.

A sampling from our notebooks. Kiino: "Does everything well. The epitome of a luxury sport sedan." Evans: "What a car. There really isn't anything this car does wrong." Jurnecka: "Last week I was telling a buddy that there isn't a single new BMW I'd even consider buying. I was wrong. I'd buy this car." Martinez: "Seriously, where's the M badge?" Nishimoto: "BMW does what it does best with this new 328, and thus the bar is raised yet again." And from me, "They picked the appellation F30 for a reason. Like the E30, the new 328i is the ideal blend of engine, transmission, and chassis." Folks, I'm awed.

In full, glaring, retina-searing contrast, this BMW wins this competition because it does everything better than the rest. For now, all the competition can do is head back to their drawing boards. Like I said before, I'm shocked. 

Now Ninjahood, I know what you're going to say right now. The price. It's high, has all this options, etc... But as stated in the article itself, a less optioned car can do the same for $10k less than what they tested (first paragraph of the article) so it does cost about the same as it's competition price-wise in it's class.  I admit it might cost $1k-$2k more if optioned the same as others but isn't it worth it to pay that extra to be driving the best car in it's class? Not even the best due to a very close race, the new 328i ran away with the competition and none came close.

 

[finnns2003]

Originally Posted by iHATEmondayz

I still don't know why a man who doesn't even own a car even argue. Dude got a lifetime subway card. Go catch the L train "b,money,son"

 

[westhellthug]

I would like to test drive it

 

[ag 47]

I want to talk about the big albatross hanging around the new 328i's neck right up front: price. This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by AG 47

I want to talk about the big albatross hanging around the new 328i's neck right up front: price. This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560

Another case of someone replying w/o reading. *sigh*

 

[10 piece nuggets]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by iHATEmondayz

I still don't know why a man who doesn't even own a car even argue. Dude got a lifetime subway card. Go catch the L train "b,money,son"

He just looks at da numbers and da pics and makes arguments based off that.

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by RFX45

Originally Posted by AG 47

I want to talk about the big albatross hanging around the new 328i's neck right up front: price. This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560

Another case of someone replying w/o reading. *sigh*


50k? Lol...

 

[ag 47]

Another case of someone replying w/o reading. *sigh*


Oh, make no mistake. I read the article. Even read your response. I have a helluva time trying to justify spending OVER 40k on a 328i. Not even a 330? A 328i?

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by 10 Piece Nuggets

Originally Posted by finnns2003

Originally Posted by iHATEmondayz

I still don't know why a man who doesn't even own a car even argue. Dude got a lifetime subway card. Go catch the L train "b,money,son"

He just looks at da numbers and da pics and makes arguments based off that.

Meanwhile I drive for a livin & my family has historically been in da Automotive repair industry .. now what?

Ihatemondayz been my fan, lol.

 

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by AG 47

Another case of someone replying w/o reading. *sigh*

 Oh, make no mistake. I read the article. Even read your response. I have a helluva time trying to justify spending OVER 40k on a 328i. Not even a 330? A 328i?

It's the sportline, so it is more focus on the performance side just like the Lexus IS250 FSport, it has bigger wheels, sport suspension, etc... And you can get enough options for $41k to get it to the same car they tested. The 328i starts at $35k now, bone stock, and chances are it'll beat all the others in the list bone stock too. This one is faster too and more fuel efficient. It's slightly bigger than the E90 but lighter. In the end, I don't see the problem because all of the other cars it's compared to is in practically the same price range. You have a hard time getting a 328i for $40k? The 335i starts at $42k and will spank the other cars further. Again, really see no problem with it.