2011 Official Boxing Thread: 12/30 Jermain Taylor + Andre Dirrell return on ShoBox.

[HEATHEN]

Originally Posted by sammietheboss

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by TCURDA



Twitter says rumors aren't true per his agent

 Keep fighting Joe. *#%# cancer.


With all due respect though, Ali whuped him twice. 

 Greatest trilogy of all time, pure poetry. If the rumors are true thank you Joe Frazier, God Bless that man.

You need to watch that fight again, or the documentury on that fight because in the last round Ali quit on his stool. Ali was begging his corner to throw in the towel and Joe was in the other corner begging his team not to throw in the towel. Needless to say Joe's team thru in the towel before Ali's team.

 yea it was that close.
  

With all due respect to Joe, his corner threw in the towel because they believed that any more punishment he'd die. They (they being Eddie Futch and his cornermen) had seen enough boxing deaths and they described Joe as having all those symptoms. Ali nearly killed him. I have to give it to Ali. 
That however is a testament to Joe's heart, if he could have won that fight, even if it meant death I fully believe he would have if it were up to him he would have fought that last round. The man was and is the epitome of heart. I agree with Ali, if there was ever a holy war I'd want Joe on my side. 

 

[caponecartels]

Originally Posted by MAKITA

How is Monzon gonna pepper Hagler with his jab when Marvin was EXTREMELY good at avoiding jabs/neutralizing them?
Monzon also had much slower footwork than Marvin, once Marvin neutralizes Carlos' jab and get in his range, he's gonna start pounding on Monzon. 

As for my light heavy list, has to be a toss up between Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles. 

And I only browse ESB, I'm mostly on Boxingscene tho.

Hagler seemed star struck against Leonard and Duran, which made both fights closer/more difficult than they should have been.
Using the orthodox stance against Leonard for the first couple rounds was stupid move, and although I love Duran, I think  Hagler shoulda stepped on the gas earlier in the fight.

I think it'll be the same case against King Carlos, where he'll try to outbox him only to find out that that he's being beaten to the punch by Monzon's sneaky punching speed and his longer reach.

He had underrated defense, and while pulling back may not be the "proper" to dodge punches, it worked well for him.
He also had a great chin, never failed for him (other than when he was hurt by Briscoe/ When Valdez dropped him).

The Marvelous one may have been quicker on his feet but Monzon was no slouch in that dept either being very economical with his footwork.

Monzon was an ice cold bastard, I don't think I've seen another fighter more calm under pressure.
You don't rule over a division for years without being a bit special and I think that Monzon is just that little bit better.

 

[caponecartels]

Originally Posted by MAKITA

How is Monzon gonna pepper Hagler with his jab when Marvin was EXTREMELY good at avoiding jabs/neutralizing them?
Monzon also had much slower footwork than Marvin, once Marvin neutralizes Carlos' jab and get in his range, he's gonna start pounding on Monzon. 

As for my light heavy list, has to be a toss up between Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles. 

And I only browse ESB, I'm mostly on Boxingscene tho.

Hagler seemed star struck against Leonard and Duran, which made both fights closer/more difficult than they should have been.
Using the orthodox stance against Leonard for the first couple rounds was stupid move, and although I love Duran, I think  Hagler shoulda stepped on the gas earlier in the fight.

I think it'll be the same case against King Carlos, where he'll try to outbox him only to find out that that he's being beaten to the punch by Monzon's sneaky punching speed and his longer reach.

He had underrated defense, and while pulling back may not be the "proper" to dodge punches, it worked well for him.
He also had a great chin, never failed for him (other than when he was hurt by Briscoe/ When Valdez dropped him).

The Marvelous one may have been quicker on his feet but Monzon was no slouch in that dept either being very economical with his footwork.

Monzon was an ice cold bastard, I don't think I've seen another fighter more calm under pressure.
You don't rule over a division for years without being a bit special and I think that Monzon is just that little bit better.

 

[caponecartels]

For anyone who hasn't seen Monzon before.

 

[caponecartels]

For anyone who hasn't seen Monzon before.

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

Originally Posted by MAKITA

How is Monzon gonna pepper Hagler with his jab when Marvin was EXTREMELY good at avoiding jabs/neutralizing them?
Monzon also had much slower footwork than Marvin, once Marvin neutralizes Carlos' jab and get in his range, he's gonna start pounding on Monzon. 

As for my light heavy list, has to be a toss up between Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles. 

And I only browse ESB, I'm mostly on Boxingscene tho.

Hagler seemed star struck against Leonard and Duran, which made both fights closer/more difficult than they should have been.
Using the orthodox stance against Leonard for the first couple rounds was stupid move, and although I love Duran, I think  Hagler shoulda stepped on the gas earlier in the fight.

I think it'll be the same case against King Carlos, where he'll try to outbox him only to find out that that he's being beaten to the punch by Monzon's sneaky punching speed and his longer reach.

He had underrated defense, and while pulling back may not be the "proper" to dodge punches, it worked well for him.
He also had a great chin, never failed for him (other than when he was hurt by Briscoe/ When Valdez dropped him).

The Marvelous one may have been quicker on his feet but Monzon was no slouch in that dept either being very economical with his footwork.

Monzon was an ice cold bastard, I don't think I've seen another fighter more calm under pressure.
You don't rule over a division for years without being a bit special and I think that Monzon is just that little bit better.

Star stuck?
You can't be serious, Hagler let Leonard get into his head, Hagler tried to beat Leonard "at his own game" which was an extremely stupid move. 

You can't factor in being "star struck" as something that will determine the outcome of a fight, I'm talking Monzon and Hagler in the primes of their careers

And speaking of the bolded, you just contradicted yourself, you can't say the man has a great chin that never failed him when he got hurt by Briscoe and dropped by Valdez.

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

Originally Posted by MAKITA

How is Monzon gonna pepper Hagler with his jab when Marvin was EXTREMELY good at avoiding jabs/neutralizing them?
Monzon also had much slower footwork than Marvin, once Marvin neutralizes Carlos' jab and get in his range, he's gonna start pounding on Monzon. 

As for my light heavy list, has to be a toss up between Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles. 

And I only browse ESB, I'm mostly on Boxingscene tho.

Hagler seemed star struck against Leonard and Duran, which made both fights closer/more difficult than they should have been.
Using the orthodox stance against Leonard for the first couple rounds was stupid move, and although I love Duran, I think  Hagler shoulda stepped on the gas earlier in the fight.

I think it'll be the same case against King Carlos, where he'll try to outbox him only to find out that that he's being beaten to the punch by Monzon's sneaky punching speed and his longer reach.

He had underrated defense, and while pulling back may not be the "proper" to dodge punches, it worked well for him.
He also had a great chin, never failed for him (other than when he was hurt by Briscoe/ When Valdez dropped him).

The Marvelous one may have been quicker on his feet but Monzon was no slouch in that dept either being very economical with his footwork.

Monzon was an ice cold bastard, I don't think I've seen another fighter more calm under pressure.
You don't rule over a division for years without being a bit special and I think that Monzon is just that little bit better.

Star stuck?
You can't be serious, Hagler let Leonard get into his head, Hagler tried to beat Leonard "at his own game" which was an extremely stupid move. 

You can't factor in being "star struck" as something that will determine the outcome of a fight, I'm talking Monzon and Hagler in the primes of their careers

And speaking of the bolded, you just contradicted yourself, you can't say the man has a great chin that never failed him when he got hurt by Briscoe and dropped by Valdez.

 

[caponecartels]

Originally Posted by MAKITA

Star stuck?
You can't be serious, Hagler let Leonard get into his head, Hagler tried to beat Leonard "at his own game" which was an extremely stupid move. 

You can't factor in being "star struck" as something that will determine the outcome of a fight, I'm talking Monzon and Hagler in the primes of their careers

And speaking of the bolded, you just contradicted yourself, you can't say the man has a great chin that never failed him when he got hurt by Briscoe and dropped by Valdez.

Star struck maybe was the wrong phrase, but he did employ some stupid strategy in those two fights and they were the two biggest names he fought in his career (not best but biggest).

But okay let'ts disregard that. I just think Monzon will be able to control the fight and when Monzon can control it he's most likely to win it.
Not to say it'll be an easy fight.


LaMotta doesn't have an Iron chin since he was hurt against Robinson and TKO'd?
Or how about Duran when he was KO'd against Hearns? doesn't mean he didn't have a solid chin.
Even Marciano went down from that perfectly right hand from Moore, but you don't hear anyone saying he didn't have chin because of it.

 

[caponecartels]

Originally Posted by MAKITA

Star stuck?
You can't be serious, Hagler let Leonard get into his head, Hagler tried to beat Leonard "at his own game" which was an extremely stupid move. 

You can't factor in being "star struck" as something that will determine the outcome of a fight, I'm talking Monzon and Hagler in the primes of their careers

And speaking of the bolded, you just contradicted yourself, you can't say the man has a great chin that never failed him when he got hurt by Briscoe and dropped by Valdez.

Star struck maybe was the wrong phrase, but he did employ some stupid strategy in those two fights and they were the two biggest names he fought in his career (not best but biggest).

But okay let'ts disregard that. I just think Monzon will be able to control the fight and when Monzon can control it he's most likely to win it.
Not to say it'll be an easy fight.


LaMotta doesn't have an Iron chin since he was hurt against Robinson and TKO'd?
Or how about Duran when he was KO'd against Hearns? doesn't mean he didn't have a solid chin.
Even Marciano went down from that perfectly right hand from Moore, but you don't hear anyone saying he didn't have chin because of it.

 

[caponecartels]

  Pretty cool pic imo.


 





 What I'd' pay to see these two sparring

 

[caponecartels]

  Pretty cool pic imo.


 





 What I'd' pay to see these two sparring

 

[caponecartels]

Still got it.

 

[caponecartels]

Still got it.

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

Originally Posted by MAKITA

Star stuck?
You can't be serious, Hagler let Leonard get into his head, Hagler tried to beat Leonard "at his own game" which was an extremely stupid move. 

You can't factor in being "star struck" as something that will determine the outcome of a fight, I'm talking Monzon and Hagler in the primes of their careers

And speaking of the bolded, you just contradicted yourself, you can't say the man has a great chin that never failed him when he got hurt by Briscoe and dropped by Valdez.

Star struck maybe was the wrong phrase, but he did employ some stupid strategy in those two fights and they were the two biggest names he fought in his career (not best but biggest).

But okay let'ts disregard that. I just think Monzon will be able to control the fight and when Monzon can control it he's most likely to win it.
Not to say it'll be an easy fight.


LaMotta doesn't have an Iron chin since he was hurt against Robinson and TKO'd?
Or how about Duran when he was KO'd against Hearns? doesn't mean he didn't have a solid chin.
Even Marciano went down from that perfectly right hand from Moore, but you don't hear anyone saying he didn't have chin because of it.

Never once implied that.
Duran had a solid chin, Hearns shattered it. (But still a good chin since he took FLUSH bombs from Jorge Castro at 46)

Marciano honestly has an overrated chin.

LaMotta blocked punches with his chin so... 

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

Originally Posted by MAKITA

Star stuck?
You can't be serious, Hagler let Leonard get into his head, Hagler tried to beat Leonard "at his own game" which was an extremely stupid move. 

You can't factor in being "star struck" as something that will determine the outcome of a fight, I'm talking Monzon and Hagler in the primes of their careers

And speaking of the bolded, you just contradicted yourself, you can't say the man has a great chin that never failed him when he got hurt by Briscoe and dropped by Valdez.

Star struck maybe was the wrong phrase, but he did employ some stupid strategy in those two fights and they were the two biggest names he fought in his career (not best but biggest).

But okay let'ts disregard that. I just think Monzon will be able to control the fight and when Monzon can control it he's most likely to win it.
Not to say it'll be an easy fight.


LaMotta doesn't have an Iron chin since he was hurt against Robinson and TKO'd?
Or how about Duran when he was KO'd against Hearns? doesn't mean he didn't have a solid chin.
Even Marciano went down from that perfectly right hand from Moore, but you don't hear anyone saying he didn't have chin because of it.

Never once implied that.
Duran had a solid chin, Hearns shattered it. (But still a good chin since he took FLUSH bombs from Jorge Castro at 46)

Marciano honestly has an overrated chin.

LaMotta blocked punches with his chin so... 

 

[caponecartels]

To me getting hurt or dropped doesn't mean your chin failed you, heck even Hagler was hurt with that bomb of a right hand in the first round against Hearns.
'
LaMotta fought out of crouch similar to Marciano, which was worked as pretty good defensive stance.
It's one of those myths of boxing that both he and Marciano were easy to hit, like all you had to do was outbox Duran and he'd give up.
They werent defensive wizards but face first sluggers? No.



And why is Marciano's chin overrated?
I've never heard anyone say it was iron, but I'd say it was pretty good.
He fought punchers like Walcott/Louis/Moore and it held up.

Yeah Louis was past his prime but he still was a capable puncher, seeing as he KTFO of Walcott in his rematch.

 

[caponecartels]

To me getting hurt or dropped doesn't mean your chin failed you, heck even Hagler was hurt with that bomb of a right hand in the first round against Hearns.
'
LaMotta fought out of crouch similar to Marciano, which was worked as pretty good defensive stance.
It's one of those myths of boxing that both he and Marciano were easy to hit, like all you had to do was outbox Duran and he'd give up.
They werent defensive wizards but face first sluggers? No.



And why is Marciano's chin overrated?
I've never heard anyone say it was iron, but I'd say it was pretty good.
He fought punchers like Walcott/Louis/Moore and it held up.

Yeah Louis was past his prime but he still was a capable puncher, seeing as he KTFO of Walcott in his rematch.

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

To me getting hurt or dropped doesn't mean your chin failed you, heck even Hagler was hurt with that bomb of a right hand in the first round against Hearns.
'
LaMotta fought out of crouch similar to Marciano, which was worked as pretty good defensive stance.
It's one of those myths of boxing that both he and Marciano were easy to hit, like all you had to do was outbox Duran and he'd give up.
They werent defensive wizards but face first sluggers? No.



And why is Marciano's chin overrated?
I've never heard anyone say it was iron, but I'd say it was pretty good.
He fought punchers like Walcott/Louis/Moore and it held up.

Yeah Louis was past his prime but he still was a capable puncher, seeing as he KTFO of Walcott in his rematch.

Uhh, that's the whole point, Joe was OUT OF PRIME. 
And name one big puncher Rocky has ever faced.

Walcott was not a big puncher PERIOD, Moore wasn't at HW.

He never faced anyone renowned for huge power.

One can say Marvin was hurt against Heanrs, but are you letting the announcers sway your opinion? They over exaggerated imo, if anything Marvin was a little stunned.

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

To me getting hurt or dropped doesn't mean your chin failed you, heck even Hagler was hurt with that bomb of a right hand in the first round against Hearns.
'
LaMotta fought out of crouch similar to Marciano, which was worked as pretty good defensive stance.
It's one of those myths of boxing that both he and Marciano were easy to hit, like all you had to do was outbox Duran and he'd give up.
They werent defensive wizards but face first sluggers? No.



And why is Marciano's chin overrated?
I've never heard anyone say it was iron, but I'd say it was pretty good.
He fought punchers like Walcott/Louis/Moore and it held up.

Yeah Louis was past his prime but he still was a capable puncher, seeing as he KTFO of Walcott in his rematch.

Uhh, that's the whole point, Joe was OUT OF PRIME. 
And name one big puncher Rocky has ever faced.

Walcott was not a big puncher PERIOD, Moore wasn't at HW.

He never faced anyone renowned for huge power.

One can say Marvin was hurt against Heanrs, but are you letting the announcers sway your opinion? They over exaggerated imo, if anything Marvin was a little stunned.

 

[caponecartels]

It hurt him, if only for a couple seconds.
Hearns best shot, his right cross, landed on Haglers dome and broke.

But it did hurt him.

If you don't think Walcott or Moore had power at HW and that Louis still had his punching power then you`re either blind or biased.
I`ll explain further tomorrow..

 

[caponecartels]

It hurt him, if only for a couple seconds.
Hearns best shot, his right cross, landed on Haglers dome and broke.

But it did hurt him.

If you don't think Walcott or Moore had power at HW and that Louis still had his punching power then you`re either blind or biased.
I`ll explain further tomorrow..

 

[jagshemash]

Originally Posted by dako akong otin

that fight was entertaining 

   Back story on that Charlie dude?

He's some guy who's been hyping him up self up online for years posting youtube vids, going on the forums, etc.  He's a joke and some people literally think it's all just a comedic act because he's so ridiculous but sadly he's just plain crazy.  I was really surprised to see him in there with Mayweather Sr. it was a moment of crossing over from the online boxing world to the real boxing world. 

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

It hurt him, if only for a couple seconds.
Hearns best shot, his right cross, landed on Haglers dome and broke.

But it did hurt him.

If you don't think Walcott or Moore had power at HW and that Louis still had his punching power then you`re either blind or biased.
I`ll explain further tomorrow..

Right.
I'll be waiting for your explanation of how old, out of prime Moore, and Walcott had power at HW.

But that's besides the point, I asked you to name ONE huge puncher Marciano faced in his career other than an old, old of prime Joe Louis. 

 

[jagshemash]

Originally Posted by dako akong otin

that fight was entertaining 

   Back story on that Charlie dude?

He's some guy who's been hyping him up self up online for years posting youtube vids, going on the forums, etc.  He's a joke and some people literally think it's all just a comedic act because he's so ridiculous but sadly he's just plain crazy.  I was really surprised to see him in there with Mayweather Sr. it was a moment of crossing over from the online boxing world to the real boxing world. 

 

[makita]

Originally Posted by CaponeCartels

It hurt him, if only for a couple seconds.
Hearns best shot, his right cross, landed on Haglers dome and broke.

But it did hurt him.

If you don't think Walcott or Moore had power at HW and that Louis still had his punching power then you`re either blind or biased.
I`ll explain further tomorrow..

Right.
I'll be waiting for your explanation of how old, out of prime Moore, and Walcott had power at HW.

But that's besides the point, I asked you to name ONE huge puncher Marciano faced in his career other than an old, old of prime Joe Louis.