The Official NBA Season Thread: NBA Cup Begins | Embiid Debut | Klay Return

[elpablo21]

 

[JD617]

Man is immune from that 'voter fatigue' we heard so much about in previous years after his chip

Why are people still saying he's immune from voter fatigue after he led the league in every metric last year but didn't win MVP?

 

[Blue Mamba]

Instead of which players didn’t pan out how you thought they would, let’s do players who stayed in the league way longer than you thought they would. I’ll start: Kelly Olynyk

 

[frshstunna]

@wavycrocket frshstunna

One of my joints went to his pool party somewhere in moco, heard that was wild too …Quinn be living

 

[getback]

Instead of which players didn’t pan out how you thought they would, let’s do players who stayed in the league way longer than you thought they would. I’ll start: Kelly Olynyk

Vince Carter

 

[rolaholic]

Why are people still saying he's immune from voter fatigue after he led the league in every metric last year but didn't win MVP?

How would that be considered 'voter fatigue' when the winner put up a historic season in his own right?

Something that hadn't been seen in 50 years specifically.

Giannis had as good a season as both on a 1 seed too. Wasn't some runaway race for anybody last year, all were worthy.

 

[noblekane]

where the **** is giannis?

 

[Coupé It]

The campaign to make Embiid MVP and NOT make Jokic MVP at the end of last season was all the proof you needed.

Mark Jackson didn’t even vote him into the top 3.

 

[elpablo21]

How would that be considered 'voter fatigue' when the winner put up a historic season in his own right?

Yeah but Joker was the clear favorite before the narrative shifted last minute like I mentioned in my previous post. He was the front runner in the straw polls post ASG

Outside of the Perk nonsense the whole are we really giving a guy 3 MVPs with no ring narrative started to bubble 2nd half of the season so there is some fatigue there.

Embiid deserved his MVP though but we probably aren't dealing with this if the MVPs went Jokic-Embiid-Jokic instead of Jokic-Jokic-Embiid as well

But the criteria is fluid these days. Which I'm not mad at

Tatum would be MVP this year by 90's standard because everyone went off the newspaper standings

 

[WASHED KING]

Embiid was still the right choice.

Jokic and Denver winning doesn’t change that

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Bucks Clippers shooting like 50/50 splits so far and the game is the lowest energy

 

[elpablo21]

The campaign to make Embiid MVP and NOT make Jokic MVP at the end of last season was all the proof you needed.

Mark Jackson didn’t even vote him into the top 3.

Yeah it got real nasty at the end with some folks


Mark and Perk

 

[rolaholic]

Yeah but Joker was the clear favorite before the narrative shifted last minute like I mentioned in my previous post. He was the front runner in the straw polls post ASG

Outside of the Perk nonsense the whole are we really giving a guy 3 MVPs with no ring narrative started to bubble 2nd half of the season so there is some fatigue there.

Embiid deserved his MVP though but we probably aren't dealing with this if the MVPs went Jokic-Embiid-Jokic instead of Jokic-Jokic-Embiid as well

But the criteria is fluid these days. Which I'm not mad at

Tatum would be MVP this year by 90's standard because everyone went off the newspaper standings

That's the thing, the criteria shifts yearly.

It was never a stat stuffer award before, now people argue for them and PER exclusively as the end all be all.

It also used to be damn near reserved for the best players on the best teams but we saw a lower seeded winner not too long ago and folks champion candidates from lower seeds all the time now so that's changed up a bit.

The only constant is probably narrative, the individual season narrative of a player has always played a big part.

Been a few 'it's his time' MVP's doled out and others not awarded because the narrative wasn't as juicy or they didn't want to write the same names again.

I'll only push back against any notions that we're supposed to have had clear cut and dry winners at any point over the last 5+ seasons. The reality is that all of the guys in the conversation have been worthy winner on their own merit. It's come down to small differences in individual voter judgement each time but nobody's been robbed

 

[moonman818]

Instead of which players didn’t pan out how you thought they would, let’s do players who stayed in the league way longer than you thought they would. I’ll start: Kelly Olynyk

Jalen Hood-Schifino

 

[JD617]

How would that be considered 'voter fatigue' when the winner put up a historic season in his own right?

Something that hadn't been seen in 50 years specifically.

Giannis had as good a season as both on a 1 seed too. Wasn't some runaway race for anybody last year, all were worthy.

There was a sentiment from some voters last year that Jokic and Giannis had already won theirs, so it was Embiid's "turn" so to speak. That's voter fatigue.

I don’t think it’s quite right that this era’s scoreboard would stand at Jokić 3, Giannis 2, Embiid 0 after the last five seasons. Those three have been the defining players of the last three campaigns (well, in the regular season anyway, which is what this award measures), and as I noted previously, quality-wise, the differences between them from year to year have been microscopic.

Between that, and that Embiid is my pick as the best player in the league right now, I’m endorsing Embiid as this year’s Most Valuable Player.

 

[Coupé It]

Yeah it got real nasty at the end with some folks


Mark and Perk

It was disgusting.

One of nastiest things I’ve seen in this sport.

 

[RustyShackleford]

They traded for an oft injured 3rd star on the other side of 3 when they already have a 35 year old star that’s oft injured. Trading for a dude who is constantly injured in Beal is a consideration you make when constructing the roster, especially at his price tag. I’m sympathetic to the idea that maybe they didn’t have another option, but yea there’s a reason why teams are moving away from the “Big 3” construction under the new CBA. It’s going to make roster construction with 3 max guys extremely difficult.

The Suns made the KD trade before the new CBA rules came out though. They were stuck with their big three.

I just don't see how cutting Paul, or getting Jordan Poole makes them more of a contender than they are now.

You are just giving some generic take about the CBA. Which is cool. I'm saying that if the Suns want to win now, then their moves seem much more reasonable

Not like the Suns are alone in being a team that went into the 2nd apron to try to win now.

On the other stuff, you’re saying a bunch of stuff that literally never argued so not worth quoting. I’ve been on board with thinking Ayton was extremely overrated since pre-draft. Getting off of his deal was great.

Then who this....

Nurkic is terrible. Big downgrade from Ayton, which says a lot

Seems like you are saying what I claimed you said, this is you in 8K Dolby Vision saying it.

You might have talked bad about Ayton too, not disputing that.

But you also said Nurkic was a downgrade from Ayton.

Something I feel no one would argue now. So, to me, it seems like the Suns got the better of that trade.

You can think it is not worth quoting, fine. But you still said it.

All the other stuff are questions. With my opinions on the matter. If you can't or don't want to answer them, fine.

But you are just being dismissive. I didn't put any words in your mouth

Never said anything about punting on Book’s time or really even heavily criticized the KD deal.

Again, I didn't say you did.

I am pointing out the consequences of the Suns going in a different direction.

The Suns made three major moves. If the Ayton trade was an upgrade, and you are sympathetic to an argument about making the Paul trade, then I am asking what is your specific issue is with the KD trade.

If people are in here talking about the West, cherry picking favorable data to show that this is a contending team “when healthy” and my response is that it’s foolish to go “when healthy” with this team because it’s unlikely that they’ll be healthy, then you don’t have to engage with it .

I think osh kosh bosh got it right. Winning a chip is a low-probability thing, and the Suns rolled the dice on the only way they felt they could have a contender in the near term.

In hindsight, maybe it would have been wise for Ishbia to wait a couple of months on the KD trade, sure.

But their other options were just cutting guys to get below the cap to get the MLEs back, and draft picks. IMO, that gives them even worse odds of winning a chip in the near term. To leave it up in the air for a few years down the line.

All while the clock is ticking.

And again, you can't point out anything specific they should have done differently instead of restating they should have done things differently.

Even if you take Beal out of the equation. There are still injury concerns with Book, Nurk, and KD. So B Sox is pointing out that your roster construction argument still falls apart because any team that suffers an injury to their core is cooked. So if want to use this injury thing, then they should trade all their injury-prone stars for other players too?

All I’m saying is the team isn’t a contender inasmuch as the Warriors aren’t a contender or the Lakers aren’t a contender.

I disagree, I think those teams have other major issues to get over.

Not getting why my opinion is striking this much of a chord with you at all.

I think you are making a bad take about a team I support. So I disagree with it. That's it.

You do the same thing from time to time, I don't see why my reaction is unique.

It’s pretty well reasoned, fair and pretty obvious looking at the current standings.

I don't think it is well-reasoned or fair.

I think you are taking a genric take and stretching it beyond what is reasonable or logical.

Then do some Monday morning quarterbacking to act like your take is bulletproof.

All while avoiding engaging with the topic in any depth

If your response to that is what other option did they have? No idea. Not my job

Think this is just a handwave

 

[elpablo21]

That's the thing, the criteria shifts yearly.

It was never a stat stuffer award before, now people argue for them and PER exclusively as the end all be all.

It also used to be damn near reserved for the best players on the best teams but we saw a lower seeded winner not too long ago and folks champion candidates from lower seeds all the time now so that's changed up a bit.

The only constant is probably narrative, the individual season narrative of a player has always played a big part.

Been a few 'it's his time' MVP's doled out and others not awarded because the narrative wasn't as juicy or they didn't want to write the same names again.

I'll only push back against any notions that we're supposed to have had clear cut and dry winners at any point over the last 5+ seasons. The reality is that all of the guys in the conversation have been worthy winner on their own merit. It's come down to small differences in individual voter judgement each time but nobody's been robbed

Yeah totally agree the margins are small when comparing seasons and deserves it. Just shoes the talent level to have multiple MVP worthy guys up there

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

Here the Grizz go again: some dude named Trey Jamison is 4/4

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

The Suns made the KD trade before the new CBA rules came out though. They were stuck with their big three.

I just don't see how cutting Paul, or getting Jordan Poole makes them more of a contender than they are now.

You are just giving some generic take about the CBA. Which is cool. I'm saying that if the Suns want to win now, then their moves seem much more reasonable

Not like the Suns are alone in being a team that went into the 2nd apron to try to win now.

Then who this....



Seems like you are saying what I claimed you said, this is you in 8K Dolby Vision saying it.

You might have talked bad about Ayton too, not disputing that.

But you also said Nurkic was a downgrade from Ayton.

Something I feel no one would argue now. So, to me, it seems like the Suns got the better of that trade.

You can think it is not worth quoting, fine. But you still said it.

All the other stuff are questions. With my opinions on the matter. If you can't or don't want to answer them, fine.

But you are just being dismissive. I didn't put any words in your mouth



Again, I didn't say you did.

I am pointing out the consequences of the Suns going in a different direction.

The Suns made three major moves. If the Ayton trade was an upgrade, and you are sympathetic to an argument about making the Paul trade, then I am asking what is your specific issue is with the KD trade.




This is kinda silly

I think osh kosh bosh got it right. Winning a chip is a low-probability thing, and the Suns rolled the dice on the only way they felt they could have a contender in the near term.

In hindsight, maybe it would have been wise for Ishbia to wait a couple of months on the KD trade, sure.

But their other options were just cutting guys to get below the cap to get the MLEs back, and draft picks. IMO, that gives them even worse odds of winning a chip in the near term. To leave it up in the air for a few years down the line.

All while the clock is ticking.

And again, you can't point out anything specific they should have done differently instead of restating they should have done things differently.

Ok famb.




I disagree, I think those teams have other major issues to get over.



I think you are making a bad take about a team I support. So I disagree with it. That's it.

You do the same thing from time to time, I don't see why my reaction is unique.



I don't think it is well-reasoned or fair.

I think you are taking a genric take and stretching it beyond what is reasonable or logical.

Then do some Monday morning quarterbacking to act like your take is bulletproof.

All while avoiding engaging with the topic in any depth



Think this is just a handwave

Got damb. he had time (sorry antidope sorry antidope sorry antidope )

 

[RustyShackleford]

Got damb. he had time (sorry antidope sorry antidope sorry antidope )

 

[king j]

 

[pmatic]

Might've just taken Poole because he's younger and generally doesn't miss games.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Might've just taken Poole because he's younger and generally doesn't miss games.

Why you hate me famb?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I dunno what it is, but I find Brooklyn's in arena entertainment uniquely annoying

Got me wishing League Pass would just show me commercials for personal injury lawyers